2009-04-02

The Middle East Murders

The Middle East Murders.

It is almost unbelievable that the 60 years of terrorism by the Zionists in Palestine to confirm their “God-given right” to the Arab lands of a people who knew nothing of the method of smash and grab – has been ignored by the so-called civilised nations of the world.

After consistent acts of terrorism, not the least of which was the bombing of the King David hotel in Palestine, the Zionists arrogantly declared at midnight on the 14th May 1948 - when the British Mandate lapsed - that this (Palestine) was their land and called it “Israel”.

Previously it was originally accepted by all civilised peoples that the years of Zionist brutal underground activity made them “terrorists”. This, even long before the Bush administration in the US decided to use that as an excuse for their terrorism.

The immediate acceptance by the United States of America, of that unilateral declaration of seizing Palestine by the foreign Jewish immigrants, was absolutely criminal then and a massive abuse of Human Rights. That was only one of the many abuses of “others” that the US/Israeli alliance has committed since.

So there was established a common bond of aggression between these “untouchable States” and it has developed to the point where it is a danger to world peace.

The claims of the Cult of Mount Zion that their God gave them the right to “kill” but not to “murder” must have been accepted by nations along with the US as an unimportant and even justifiable sacrifice of Arab rights; lives; dignity and possessions to a beat-up European conscience of the “Final Jewish Solution”.

After all – who cares about the Arabs? They are “untermenschen”! Human rights must be handed out carefully otherwise they might become universal.

It has taken many years for the build up of military and nuclear power in this “foreign wannabe westerner state” of “Israel” based on lies and concocted stories – to produce the Middle East Murders in Gaza .

This should have been condemned by the US sponsors of this terrorist gang – right in the middle of the lands of peaceful Arab farmers – and should give a wake up call to all civilised peoples that this cannot be accepted – no matter how powerful the US/Israeli “mafia like” alliance is now.

Because it will only get worse and their “God-given” right to rule the world will be a lot nastier than the Nazi intention of producing a “Master Race”.

95 comments:

  1. Thanks ID.

    I suppose that it would be appropriate for me to make the first comment on this thread.

    We can and I hope we do - print in this forum the facts, figures and abuses of human rights which the new Israel claims are the heroic deeds of their multi-national nuclear capable military.

    We should remember that this story has been told many times in our lifetime - sometimes as propaganda but also in entertainment Movies of so-called expose’s of the cruelty of power when abused by those who have it – and against those who do not.

    That is the old, old story of the underdog being mistreated; raped; murdered and divested of life, liberty and the freedom that the US hypocrites have so callously exploited since the early 1900’s.

    Just imagine: There is a small farmer based nation whose citizens have no education and no information sources especially those concerning the “smash and grab” behaviour which was once the methods in the Middle Ages?

    And now the Zionists use those methods in the Middle East Murders in the 20th and 21st centuries AD.

    Well might the Zionists claim that their rights go back to the middle ages because their methods certainly belong in that time? They should remember that their aggression against the Canaanites and Jebusites in history, eventually turned on them – by the same methods that they had employed and they want us to be sorry for them? Far dinkum.

    The new leader of Middle East Murderers, US trained Binyamin Netanyahu, will take every advantage of the “meek” to inherit the earth with America.

    NE OUBLIE.

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  2. Just making a comment on some of the language (drawing on inspiration from Lakoff.) If one writes “God-given” right then an image that could be invoked is of a heavily made-up Charlton Heston handing down stone tablets from some sort'a cloud.

    The Israelis, through the agency of their (offensive!) IDF, attack their neighbours in both targeted and indiscriminate fashions, apparently caring not a fig as to who they kill (innocent civilians) or how (white phosphorous), with the prime purpose of stealing ever more land and water from the original hapless owners.

    That's the behaviour of 'common' criminals and should be described only in matter-of-fact language.

    It's a matter of strategy. I've said it before; it doesn't matter what they say - and recall that Israelis and their apologists are trying to justify/cover-up murdering theft; it's what they do that counts. Then, as to the “meek” to inherit, again language, this time mostly originated/deployed by "The Church" (who/which is simply not on our, we the sheople's side). Just as saying "They'll get what they deserve in heaven," that's the sop they ("The Church") feeds the sheople - in an attempt to prevent the sheople rightfully calling for justice in the here-and-now.

    But justice delayed is justice denied - especially if the promised justice is to be delivered beyond the grave. The only thing that comes after death ... is nothing. Speaking for myself, I'd like justice not just to be done, but also seen to be done - soonest, i.e. *NOW*!

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  3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  4. The above deleted post is so-called 'content-free;' it has no meaningful contribution to any debate. Further, it contains a link; one suspects a troll trying to attract traffic to its site. So, although I left the blogger-ID visible, I recommend "Don't look."

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  5. For the sake of reducing my typing, I shall call the Middle East Murderers (Israelis) MEM's.

    Now that the MEM's have attacked and murdered innocent people in Palestine proper; the West Bank; Gaza; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Iraq et al - without warning or the civilised method of war declaration - WHY should any nation in the entire world trust them?

    The evidence against this race of apparently maniacal "killers" is more solid now that Gaza has become the last straw. The patience of a world whose representation in the United Nations is no protection against the unbridled "you are with us or against us" attitude of the MEM's.

    Now, in an article by the Jewish Journalist Jeffrey Goldberg, the Zionist leader of the Israelis has stated "NETANYAHU TO OBAMA; STOP IRAN - OR I WILL". Fair dinkum.

    The entire frightening interview can be read on http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200903u/netanyahu

    So the world has this problem - some 200,000 Israelis, their supporters thoughout the world, and led by the cult of Mount Zion, are telling the US President, in no simple terms, that the monster the President's nation has created under false pretences, is now even more uncontrollable than ever before.

    Does anyone really believe that all the Zionists want is peace? Fair dinkum. Didn’t Hitler say exactly the same thing?

    Outside of the early actions involving the German Army, I cannot think of any situation in my lifetime where the behaviour of people like the MEM's is permitted under any measure of natural justice and the rights of humanity.

    No group of war criminals should be allowed to continue their murderous actions on the blood of innocent people, just because the MEM's say that they suspect them.

    For example, suspecting Iran of what? At the worst, becoming a nuclear power - like the MEM's? Then why is that a crime worthy of the massacre of another race of people? Any race will do? Surely people wouldn't think that the MEM's are racist? Surely not.

    The more I learn about the modern history of new Israel, the more I am determined to try to make people think and reason - why?

    I lived through the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich and the signs are so similar that it is worthy of decent people to do what ever they can to reverse this trend - because to allow it to remain, even status quo, will only delay the inevitable.

    NE OUBLIE.

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  6. G'day Ern, here is a comparison in attitudes and treatment from Juan Cole.

    Avigdor Lieberman, the Moldovan night club bouncer, is now foreign minister of Israel. The world has had a lot of fun laughing at the pronouncements of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who stands falsely accused of threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the map. But Ahmadinejad has protested that it would be wrong to kill large numbers of civilians.

    In contrast, Lieberman has threatened to wipe at least two countries, Egypt and Palestine, off the map. Monstrously, he suggested bombing the Aswan Dam, which would have the effect of murdering all 80 million Egyptians and sweeping them into the Mediterranean in a vast continental African tsunami.

    Lieberman promptly announced on assuming office that the Mideast peace process is dead. Well, at least we have an outbreak of frankness.


    That's just the start.

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  7. G'day Bob,

    It is amazing when people genuinely think and reason to a point where lies that have been bludgeoned into their memories are proven false.

    Your article is another example of the truth seeping out of the "locked down" and orchestrated information from the MEM's.

    What an enormous advantage the Zionists have had over all these years? As I have opined, the race seems to fervently believe that they are the chosen people. That in itself is not a crime Bob, but when these previously separated Zionists concentrate into powerful situations, all hell can break loose.

    There is nothing I know of that is barred in this forum so I like to think and reason even about issues that have been forbidden elsewhere.

    For example - I believe that the killing of concentration camp persons, mainly by starvation, did in fact happen and it was given the title of the Holocaust.

    If the Zionists of new Israel were fair dinkum they would acknowledge that those major killings were just as effective as their own blockade of Gaza could have been, if they had had their heroic slaughter continued.

    However, due to the never-ending bleating of the Jewish race as to the horrible end meted out to their ancestors in WW II, I think it is not only misleading but a travesty of natural justice to claim that the victims were only Jews.

    It is just not true. The Russians and Gypsies and political activists were also involved and should be at least mourned with all others. Who speaks for them?

    I believe that the holocaust did happen but, it happened to all peoples considered by the Nazi hierarchy as a danger to the Third Reich. The very clearly demonstrated attitude of the MEM’s surely is entitled to consider that the Jewish people and their solid belief in their superiority could even be the Nazi excuse of “we are entitled to defend ourselves” - just as the MEM’s want to attack Iran “to protect themselves”. What a lot of crap.

    As ID says “its not what they say it is what they do”. Amen.

    It beggars the mind to imagine what the Nazis would have done given the same circumstances that exist now due to the MEM's. Would they have said “we told you so” or would they have acted being “entitled to defend ourselves”?

    I hope that honesty will shock some people into thinking and reasoning about the Middle East Murders and the end result if the Arabs learn and become capable of defending themselves without suicide.

    At this point in time, I can only feel sorry for the neighbours of the MEM's.

    The racist campaign, sponsored by the US, is a disgrace to the civilised world. The unity intention of the United Nations has been reduced to a "paper tiger" by the Bush capitalist administration. And who would be the most dedicated capitalists of all?

    Who will speak up for the Arabs if not us?

    NE OUBLIE.

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  8. good observations ...

      .. and better questions ...

        .. g'day Ernest William Graham

    -=*=-

    Catch phrase: Trying to have one's cake and eat it too.

    Definitive case #1: The (modern?) state of Israel claims so-called 'legitimization' via the UN, but violates UN-based international law.

    Definitive case #2: The US of A was a prime sponsor of UN creation, but similarly violates UN-based international law.

    Both utterly hypocritical entities - the US and Israeli regimes violate international law in the very worst way, i.e. by committing murder for spoil via aggressive invasions, criminal behaviour of the Nuremberg class:

      «During the trial, the chief American prosecutor, Robert H. Jackson, stated:

      To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.»
    [wiki/War_of_aggression]

    -=*=-

    The question occurs, Q: "How do they get away with it?"

    Some may say, A1: "It is not simple." Well, quite so - or rather, not so - simple, that is.

    But a better answer, A2: Because an evil group has seized control of our so-called 'democracies,' turned the people into sheople by the repeated assertion of premeditated, filthy lies aka propaganda. And although that process itself is not at all simple, it is a direct, covert 'scientifically' planned and criminal attack on the very basis of our society.

    I put 'scientifically' in quotes because the associated scientific base is either corrupted or wrong or both; the basis has been evolved from the work of Freud via his relative Bernays, a key assumption was, presumably still is, that evil lurks in the hearts of the masses, the masses then may not be free but must be controlled - all in the name of making democracy safe(!!?)

    It's pretty easy to see the cruel contradiction involved, and it makes (perverted!) sense in the now recognised corrupted circumstances of our so-called 'democracies,' whereby the sheople are deliberately misinformed, the choice of candidates is from a venal 2-party system of pug-ugly twins, and those elected clearly do not represent the best interests of the people. All of this paragraph has been revealed, at least dating from the abuses and depredations implemented by B, B & H.

    But no-one need take my word for it, there is a downloadable TV documentary (4 * .wmv = 120Mb or 4 * .mp4 = 640Mb) describing the wickedness in sordid detail; start here(wmv) or here(mp4).

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  9. Who will speak up for the Arabs if not us, you ask Ernest?

    I guess if the Arabs stopped fighting among themselves and they also gave up being pawns in America's imperial game, they could speak up for themselves.

    And if they joined together militarily, they could bring real pressure to bear on Israel and America.

    Cheers

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  10. G'day ID and Bob,

    Terrific articles and the responses to Juan Cole seem to indicate that more people are aware that the Middle East Murders are only a prelude to even worse killings and increased use of weapons of mass destruction.

    ID's take on propaganda and the way the Zionists have expanded their power in that area by taking over the American Movie and T/V networks - just as we see the beginning of the same in Australia.

    I am not surprised that the Netanyahu murderers group are taking on a maniac killer like Lieberman since it is my view that those members of the cult of Mount Zion know no other way to take control of the world.

    Just a comment libre's, if I remember correctly Fiona Reynolds when defending her Zionist compatriots, once stated that Egypt had accepted the State of Israel? And I and others have stated that that won't protect them or the Fatah capitulation in the West Bank from being forced into slavery to the might of Zion.

    To enforce that opinion, while Iran's Ahmadinejad has protested that it would be wrong to kill large numbers of civilians - Lieberman has threatened to wipe at least two countries, Egypt and Palestine, off the map.

    And I quote from Bob's post: "Monstrously, he (Lieberman) suggested bombing the Aswan Dam, which would have the effect of murdering all 80 million Egyptians and sweeping them into the Mediterranean in a vast continental African tsunami." And the yanks talk about Nth. Korea?

    No nation can moderate the vicious expansionist plans of this "superior race" since the cult of Zion claim they were told by their God to wipe out all the other nationalities including their animals. A very civilised deity that one.

    While Lieberman is welcomed in the US, even by the Clintons who should hang their heads in shame, Iran's Ahmadinejad is treated as a criminal.

    Digressing, I have noted the report that the occupying administration of Palestine has declared that, in addition to the apartheid treatment of the Arabs in their own country they will have to swear allegiance to the Jewish flag or lose all social welfare! Fair dinkum.

    If only - if only - the entire civilised world would do exactly the same to any Jewish people who claim to be citizens of their countries?

    Can you hear the cries of "anti-Semite" - that's me for one.

    NE OUBLIE.

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  11. G'day David G,

    There is a story with many paragraphs to the situation of Arabs not uniting to face a common enemy.

    The first is the nature of the Arabs and their preference to throwing rocks as they did thousands of years ago - the only time they seem to have been organised as a military force is by the British in World Wars 1 and 2. And even then without tanks or air support.

    They certainly have sufficient courage but any attempt by members of the Arab League to train their citizen soldiers are treated as terrorist cells by the US/Israeli alliance of MEM's.

    The spying apparatus of the CIA and the Mossad is all encompassing and nothing goes unnoticed. If there is no reason to invade (Iraq) a story is invented. But you must know all of this.

    The Arabs of the World Arab League countries of Jordan; UAE: Bahrain: Tunisia; Algeria; Djibouti: Saudi Arabia; Sudan; Syria; Somalia; Iraq; Oman; Palestine; Qatar: Comoros: Kuwait; Lebanon; Libyan Arab Jamahiriya; Egypt; Morocco; Mauritiana; and Yemen. (Note that Iran and Afghanistan are not members and are more militaristic due to their treatment by the Russians and now the US and their allies).

    The League is involved with political, economic, cultural and social problems to promote the interests of the member states.

    The last thing these peaceful people think about is unprovoked aggression, by them or against them. While America built up the WMD's in Zionist Israel, the Arabs thought the US was their friend - when will people learn?

    The military uniting of the Arab States would be very difficult even if it was allowed anywhere in the world by the US/Israeli alliance - and there is the conundrum - how can they possibly defend themselves?

    These people are still in the middle ages and the wealth of their land's natural resources have been exploited by various empires over the years.

    When we have listened to the Jewish whinging for scores of years about how they have been treated, the Arabs have been used and abused over longer periods, especially by their own ruling class.

    The situation of Iraq trying to build a motorised army without an air force or properly trained troops was a pity to see and their steamrolling by the American juggernaut was bad enough in 1991 but much worse in 2003.

    The early days of the Zionist "annexing" of Palestine were clearly to the advantage of the multi-national Jews from Europe and elsewhere along with the technology and wealth from the world's biggest terrorist the US.

    I have written before that "a country is only entitled to that which it can defend" and the Arabs are learning that to their displeasure. And unfortunately that is the case.

    Palestinians’ wave of sympathy during WW 2 made them a prime target for the Jews - and were rewarded with treachery and murder.

    Just take a look at the Arab League's members, where they are situated and superimpose the map of the various Jewish tribes that "wandered"?

    Close to the major north African Arab nations - no?

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

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  12. The Middle East Murderers and the Holocaust.

    Quite rightly, many have called the Middle East Murders in Gaza the "Gaza holocaust" and that is as good a description about the actions of the Zionist MEM's as you can get.

    I have called the Jewish Holocaust a political weapon, a "good business devise" and generally an orchestrated campaign for sympathy for the victims and punishment for the perpetrators.

    Over the 60+ years of Holocaust advertisement from Museums - millions of words and books - and so many claims and counter-claims about that one issue of War Crimes, than any other.

    There are many more "revisions" of the propaganda concerning the incident than there is the denial that it never happened.

    IMHO I believe that the Holocaust did happen but, I also believe that the horror and sympathy that it has engendered in the world psyche has been completely highjacked by one victim alone - the Jewish victims, mostly long gone as are their tormentors.

    They may have been in the majority but they were not alone nor were the camps, the gas chambers and the crematoriums for them alone.

    Because I have never accepted that mass murder is understandable, I can say that the type of "killing" by the Concentration Camps of WW 2 were "murders" of the worst kind.

    And I can also say that that same type of killing in Gaza by the military “Goliath” of new Israel was just as horrible and unforgiveable as the crimes that originated the title of "Holocaust".

    And now that description of systematic murder belongs to the world and all who suffer from massacres, slaughters and unbridled brutality, especially against civilians as was the case with the Jews, Gypsies and political prisoners of Europe and Russia.

    So then there is the irony that the race who claimed sole right to the Holocaust is the first to perform the same style of civilian murder as was their charge against the Nazis.

    People who live in glass houses....!

    Now, we can and should consider that the victims of the Jewish style Middle East Murders in Gaza and elsewhere, have been exposed to a holocaust of their own and agree that it is even more horrendous when performed in peace-time than the original was during a world war.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au

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  13. Ernest, keep in mind that, at one stage in the history of the world, the 'Arabs' were the only civilization in town.

    While the rest of Europe descended into the Dark Ages and barbarity, the Moors flourished and conquered and had a rich, artistic and scientific culture.

    And they certainly didn't lack in military skills or courage either!

    Cheers.

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  14. G'day Ern,

      .. you might care to review my "jewish dilemma" article, and here's a few more bits from the Lendman article previously cited:

      «Ben-Gurion sided with Jabotinsky, chose a military option, and winning the War of Independence was his vindication. Ever since, Israel stayed hard line politically and militarily. It fights and negotiates from strength, not weakness. Confrontation, not diplomacy is its strategy. It believes Arabs only understand violence, so military threats and intimidation are its options. Generals become future leaders. The cycle is mostly repeated. Washington, the West, and most Arab states go along, and military aggression is called self-defense - hence the Israel Defense Forces [functions] much like America's Department of Defense.»
    [ibid.]

    My comment 'cute' phrase, that: "military aggression is called self-defense," and why do so many (even Arabs!) go along? Then, how long do you suppose they can keep it up, given "Live by the sword, die by the sword?"

      «In a recent article, Middle East expert Joseph Massad put it this way:

    "The logic goes as follows: Israel has the right to occupy Palestinian land, lay siege to (its) populations in Bantustans surrounded by an apartheid wall, starve the population, cut them off from fuel and electricity (and all else), uproot their trees and crops, and launch periodic raids and targeted assassinations against them and their elected leadership, and if (resistance is encountered, Israel is entitled to slaughter) them en masse (because it's just) 'defending' itself as it must and should."»

    [ibid.]

    My comment: again, "defending itself" by aggressive invasion, followed by occupation and finally "settlements." Q: How legal can that be? A: Not.

      «Understanding Zionism is fundamental:

    -- its reliance on oppression, violence, and dispossession;

    -- its belief in exclusivity, privilege, and Jewish exceptionalism;

    -- racism at the core of its politics;

    -- democracy only for Jews;

    -- an ethnically pure state in which half its inhabitants aren't Jewish, are afforded few rights, and none on what matters most.»

    [ibid.]

    My comment: no comment.

      «Israel agreed to UN Resolution 194 (in December 1948) providing for free access to Jerusalem and other holy places as well as granting Palestinian refugees the right of return. In May 1949, UN Resolution 273 gave Israel UN membership conditional on it accepting Resolutions 181 and 194 and "unreservedly (agreeing to honor) the obligations of the United Nations Charter." However, earlier in June 1948, the Israeli cabinet (with no formal vote) barred Palestinian refugees from returning and directed the IDF to stop those trying with live fire. The same policy remains today to assure a Jewish majority and much more.»
    [ibid.]

    My comment: so much for the 'existence' claim and Israel's honesty ("agreeing to honor") , Q: How can one claim legitimization via UN resolutions, whilst being in flagrant violation of them at the same time? A: Not.

    Fazit: The pro-Z propagandists, apologists and (lying!) trolls have a programmed response to these problems and more: ignore all inconvenient facts. As such, one simply cannot carry out a meaningful dialogue with such propagandists, apologists and (lying!) trolls - but worse, continuing any such dialogue only allows the liars to trot out ever more of their lies, which is why I recommend (a) identify any and all liars, (b) proclaim so (loudly!) - then (c) totally ignore all such forthwith. Trying to reason with liars actually does damage; sad but true. Instead of arguing, one simply hammers the facts home.

    Now, a *BIG* Q: Since decent, law abiding people comprise the overwhelming majority, why are the despicable criminal I/J/Z-plex acts allowed to continue, now 60+ years and no end in sight? Where, exactly, is truth and justice?

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  15. G'day David G,

    Very true David but, the days of the Moors from Africa are well and truly forgotten even, I believe, by the normal schooling of our children.

    Arabs? Surely from the North of Africa?

    Are we saying, both of us, that each empire must have its day? Because I believe that has been the case for almost the beginning of recorded time.

    With respect David - the military skills of the Moors where an art confined to the available weapons of that time, and perhaps unknown by the rest of the known world.

    One would like to believe that, if the word civilised means anything then, with the fluidity of power during the progress of time, it should have made us more aware of the cost that faces the world's obligation to the rights of others. Human Rights.

    We haven't come very far have we?

    Again with respect David, if, through the ages, world societies have excused the crimes of empires, for example, because the Emperors were all powerful, then we deserve nothing more than dictatorships.

    The League of Nations and the United Nations have had only one "Emperor" and that is the United States of America. The most powerful terrorist in the history of the world.

    The moron G.W. Bush took the hopeful belief of the "United Nations" of the world and destroyed their confidence in the US and themselves.

    Is there a possibility David, that a nation, any nation or confederation of nations, can really give and enforce, the equal rights of all humanity to exist?

    Like the Middle East Murderers, where there is no punishment there is no control. Unfortunately the control is in their own hands.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This post will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

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  16. "We haven't come very far have we?" you say, Earnest.

    Sociologically, we haven't made any progress in the last ten thousand years. And any creature that doesn't evolve and adapt is destined for extinction.

    In our case it will be in a puff of nuclear smoke which we created!

    Ironic, eh?

    Cheers.

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  17. To me it matters not a jot whether a people today are descendants of some or other "great civilisation".

    What really matters is that they are human beings, born as equal in intrinsic value as any of us.

    The Zionist Likudniks and their ilk inhumanely treat Arabs as if they are not-human.

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  18. There is nothing I'm aware of that can possibly excuse lies, cheating, theft and murder. Since Israel, its regime, its people, its apologists et al., in other words the entire I/J/Z-plex, are inextricably entwined with lies, cheating, theft and murder, the whole show is inexcusable. Further, all people who do not unconditionally condemn that I/J/Z-plex make themselves accessories, since in the absence of explicit disapproval, doing nothing extends tacit approval. Israel is both a cancer on the world and a completely unsupportable enterprise - for all decent, law abiding humans, i.e. the great majority.

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  19. Speaking of those trying to excuse lies, cheating, theft and murder ... over there, on that unethical blog where the editors censored Ernest and then banned him for pointing out what they have censored, there's a liar targeting Marilyn Shepherd.

    He's peddling the "Palestinians started it" propaganda and using a lie to try to make out that Marilyn hasn't presented 'the context' truthfully.

    Here's the true context he's deliberately omitted associated with the events in 1994 he's misrepresenting over there:

    On 25 February 1994, Baruch Kappel Goldstein, an Israeli-American settler, off-duty Israeli army reservist captain and member of the extremist Kach movement, entered a room in the Cave of the Patriarchs serving as a mosque, wearing his Israeli army uniform with the insignia of rank, creating the image of a reserve officer on active duty. He then opened fire on the people praying in that place which was sacred to them, murdering in cold blood dozens of Palestinians and wounding many more.

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  20. He goes as far as the following bald-faced lie and not one of the censors/editors over says a thing in their bold font:

    "No disrespect, Marilyn, but throughout your entire review of Paul McGeough’s book about the attempt by Israel’s Mossad security service to assassinate Hamas's Khalid Mishal, you never once mentioned that that was in response to two massive Hamas suicide bombing attacks in Israel ..."

    Yet in her review she did in fact plainly mention this:

    "The first terrorist attack by Hamas was not launched until after Baruch Goldstein entered a mosque, while people prayed, and committed a massacre. That was answered with a suicide bomber." [my emphasis]

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  21. As for the liar's post over there, he starts with a false framing of Maryam Farhat. She's popularly known as Umm Nidal, which means 'Mother of Struggle' not what that Zionist liar says it means. Indeed, she had named her first born son Nidal, which is the Arabic word for 'struggle'.

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  22. All people every where (should) have the right to say what they want, to whom they want, and in the language of their own choosing. At the same time, the only person in the world who (intimately!) knows exactly what that specific person wants to read - or not, is that specific person him/herself, and that person alone. That latter statement should mean the end of all censorship everywhere (except for the immature, usually minors.) BUT (and it's a VERY BIG but), some people can't behave - as our occasional visiting t**d-droppers have shown in here. The method we adopt is to identify such t**ds, and, if such do not meaningfully contribute to any discussion, we may delete them. As we know, censorship 'over there' is carried out (cowardly, ostensibly) in the name of keeping the exchanges 'decent and/or well mannered,' and that could be defined as suitable for a blue-rinse CWA meeting. Unfortunately, when discussing the misdeeds of the US of A and Israel, words such as lies, cheating, theft and murder *must* be deployed - as the nature of those beasts. But if one were to dare deploy such words 'over there,' then one could be censored and/or eventually ejected like poor Ern - presumably, as non-CWA suitable. But as Ern's censored post demonstrates, their censorship shows definite and sinister pro-Z bias. Since we usually can't see censored input, no-one can know who or what is cut. But the direction has been made clear - and it is neither good nor balanced.

    Meanwhile de-fanged discussions are engaged in - on the one side, by so-called 'progressives' and the other side, as orana gelar says, by liars. Again, the nature of such beasts. Another but, it's a sad commentary indeed, that exactly those 'progressives' with their endless, usually fact based arguments (those that survive censoring) who prolong the lying apologists' opportunities and exposure. It can only be concluded that "Der, they didn't think (things properly through.)" And that's too bad; better strategies are available to those who take the trouble to get properly informed. Like appreciating "Don't think of an Elephant," say - and applying Lakoff-type principles.

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  23. Well may we ask "What sort of people would follow this type of person"?

    Avigdor Lieberman is now foreign minister of new Israel.

    Among his many reported attitudes there are the following:

    1998 - Lieberman called for the flooding of Egypt by bombing the Aswan Dam which would kill approximately 80 million people.
    COMMENT: And the Jews criticise the Nazis who could have done that but didn't even think about it. Only someone as inhuman as Lieberman would.

    2001 - Lieberman proposed that the West Bank be divided into four cantons with no central Palestinian government and no possibility for Palestinians to travel between.
    COMMENT: Again Nazi style oppression.

    2002 - An Israeli daily quoted Lieberman putting to the Zionists that the Palestinians should be given the ultimatum that "At 8am we'll bomb all commercial centers…at noon we'll bomb their gas stations...at two we'll bomb their banks...
    COMMENT: What a wonderful idea for an occupation force to consider as a peace objective?

    2003 - Another Israel daily reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by the Jews be drowned in the Dead Sea and he even offered to provide the buses to take them there.
    COMMENT: And 90% of the Jews in occupied Palestine favour the methods of his government.

    2004 - Lieberman wanted to forcible transfer Palestinian citizens from their land, saying there was "nothing undemocratic about transfer".
    COMMENT: Of course he wasn't aware that it is illegal in international law - but then the Jews in new Israel do not accept any international law or any consideration of human rights.

    Also 2004 - he said that 90% of Israel's 1.2 million Palestinians will have to find a new entity beyond Israel borders "they have no place here, they can take their bundles and get lost".

    These are in the link suggested by Bob Wall’s link on Juan Cole on April 3 in the thread "Middle East Murders".

    These murderous maniacs have the support of the United States of America and a reported 90% of the Jews in occupied Palestine. “Nothing personal just business”.

    Will these barbarians eventually cause the rise of another "Nazi" objection to their uncontrolled behaviour?

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  24. G'day orana. Someone doesn't agree with you about the liar - namely one Geoff Pahoff. He has stated that "... [the liar] makes the effort to get the basic facts right..." Further he states:

    I know how any insistence on truth and accuracy can frustrate the hell out of people like you and Marilyn."

    This from someone whose dishonesty has been proven and who has a record of disappearing when confronted with truth and accuracy. Another case of a lack of a sense of irony.

    ReplyDelete
  25. The Zionist terrorists unnecessary Middle East Murders. The bombing of the King David Hotel - "a day of infamy and a prediction of a terrorist future".

    The King David Hotel was bombed by Jewish terrorists on 22 July 1946 with the murders of 93 people.

    The Jewish propaganda machine was well oiled with American money and weapons - just as the IRA were equally supported in their terrorism.

    The Zionists claimed all sorts of unsubstantiated "efforts" in trying to avoid civilian deaths and giving sufficient warning for an evacuation to take place. [Fair dinkum.]

    According to Wikipedia Chief Secretary for the Government of Palestine, Sir John Shaw, declared:

    "As head of the Secretariat, the majority of the dead and wounded were my own staff, many of whom I have known personally for eleven years. They are more than official colleagues. British, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians; senior officers, police, my orderly, my chauffeur, messengers, guards, men and women - young and old - they were my friends."

    Subsequently the terrorist leader Begin accused the Chief Secretary of failing to order an evacuation and later, of cowardly looking after himself only. These were made by American authors in the Jewish media and were proven false and the Zionists "apologised".

    Nevertheless: "Two months after the bombing, Shaw was appointed High Commissioner of Trinidad and Tobago. The Irgun immediately sent a letter bomb to him there, but it was intercepted and successfully disarmed". [We have learned to take note of what they do, not what they say. You do not negotiate with these people].

    Again According to Wikipedia:

    "On July 1, 1946 Moshe Sneh, chief of the Haganah General Headquarters, sent a letter to the then leader of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, which instructed him to "carry out the operation at the "chick" (code for the King David Hotel)."Despite an initial approval for the project, repeated delays in executing the operation were requested by the Haganah, in response to changes unfolding in the political situation."[The British Mandate was all but ended]

    A war weary British Prime Minister, Clement Attlee, commented in the House of Commons:

    "Hon. Members will have learned with horror of the brutal and murderous crime committed yesterday in Jerusalem. Of all the outrages which have occurred in Palestine, and they have been many and horrible in the last few months, this is the worst. By this insane act of terrorism 93 innocent people have been killed or are missing in the ruins. The latest figures of casualties are 41 dead, 52 missing and 53 injured."

    The terrorist leader of the Irgun was Menachem Begin. The facts of history confirmed that the attack took place and killed 93 people; that any warning was denied; that the Jewish murderers were dressed as Arabs and Sudanese waiters; that the organised Jewish terrorist regime was mainly controlled by European Jews without any possible legal rights to the Arab lands.

    The major terrorist leaders: Menacham Begin (Irgun) was Russian - Itshak Sadeh (Terrorist commander) was Russian and Moshe Sneh (Haganah)was Polish.

    The British; Russians; French; Germans; Polish; etc., were at their lowest level due to the heavy costs in lives and infra-structure while the Americans had made a profit and had prospered during WW 2 notwithstanding their massive losses in the Military as well.

    “Those who live by the sword………”.

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  26. An important, even 'key' feature of propaganda, is the Big Lie[1]. But when assessing the criminality of the I/J/Z-plex, their lies are relatively minor when compared to their theft-by-murder depredations that have devastated now sadly mostly ex-Palestine. It's the I/J/Z-plex morality you see; lying is intimately embraced by them - they shy from no crime, no matter how depraved, debased and/or deplorable.

    [1] The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. It was defined by Adolf Hitler in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf as a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
    [wiki/Big_lie]

    ReplyDelete
  27. The honeymoon with Obama is not universal.

    When the President of a nation that has cultivated dictators; rogue states; exercised terrorism; made profit from war and generally encouraged instability in key areas of the world - one has to be sceptical.

    With the information the media fed us about the first "election" of the ex-druggy; ex-alcoholic and completely failed businessman George W. Bush, as President of the most powerful single nation in world history - we were given a frightening example of the phrase "Any American can become President". All that needs is the media millions.

    At first blush, people can be hopeful that the scourge of the Bush administration is over but, without any power on earth that can keep the United States of America accountable and responsible, then we badly need at least a counter-balance somewhere.

    When the US blesses a dictatorship or terrorist regime, the world seems to accept it without voicing a major objection but, with technology and the courage of sites like webdiary-crippled and yourdemocracy – hopefully elsewhere in the world - there is always a hope.

    The days of great statesmen in the U.S. has been overtaken by the concentration of wealth and influence and President Obama would only be another casualty IF he really made a difference.

    While I imagine that most of the world agreed with his "insistence" that rules must be obeyed; breaches must be punished and words should mean something - it is just talk unless the worst offender of human rights leads the way and establishes either total support for the United Nations and those principles or his credibility will be tarnished.

    Like many others I guess, I was relieved that Bush was at least finished and Cheney has been sidelined - however for example, Obama seems to have tried to mollify the most inflectional financial giants by taking some of them into his administration.

    I don’t envy this man who takes on a world financial recession and a nation whose trust and reliability is almost negative.

    The world hierarchy, like the Middle East, cannot function democratically without equal rights and respect for others.

    Otherwise even the thought of liberty – equality – and fraternity is as far away as it was when first mentioned.

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  28. G'day Ern. Obama seems to share the same lack of a sense of irony as previous presidents. In the wake of the NK missile launch he made statements about rules having to be obeyed and violators punished. But apparently he is only referring to "them" when he says such things as this article by Glenn Greenwald indicates.

    See right hand of page for links to more articles.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Some Comments on Avigdor Lieberman the new Israeli Foreign Minister.

    These are from Informed Comment by Juan Cole:

    "Lieberman's brutal racism is the reductio ad absurdum of more than 100 years of Zionism, an aggressive nationalism born out of the marriage of 19th Century European colonialism with orthodox Biblical claims to the land. The patina of idealism and morality that characterized Israel at its founding is stripped away. We are brought low by an irresponsible, crude, reckless bully who given half the chance will wreak great damage wherever he is allowed to hold sway."

    And: "This man makes Ahmadinejad look like Mother Theresa. I don't like Ahmadinejad; but, to his credit, he has said Iran would NOT attack Israel, in contrast with constant Israeli threats against Iran."

    And: "It's easy to draw an obvious (and ironic) connection to Nazism. Absolutely disgusting. I'm so shocked at the kind of person Lieberman chooses to be. I have no worlds for how appalled I am."

    And: "What was once a lunatic state who bombed its two concentration camps with wild abandon and implemented policy after policy of collective punishment against the Palestinian people is now poised to mutate into a more gruesome form of its former self. I can hardly wait to see which international laws they will violate next! Perhaps Israel could start a Human Despair Day in honor of its new far-right government."

    And: "The thought of Avigdor Lieberman as Israels foreign minister is truly horrible but Gideon Levy might be right when he wrote: 'Netanyahu's election will fre Israel from the burden of deception. If he can establish a right-wing government, the veil will be lifted and the nation's tgrue face revealed to its citizens and the rest of the world, including Arab countries. See http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/1061736.html With Gaza massacres in recent memory and an extreme far right nationalist like Lieberman as the face of Israeli foreign policy, hopefully that veil of lies and propaganda will be lifted even faster."

    And a final quote: “Israeli politics has apparently devolved into the realm of the preposterous, projecting a menacing yet anxious masculinity – not unlike the decadent, decaying reign of Saddam Hussein and his phantom threats of “Weapons of Mass Destruction”.
    Under the reality of historical scrutiny we observe the Israelis sending their mighty forces northward to confront Hezbollah, only to see their tanks and APC turtles split open like tin cans by irregulars running around with newfangled yet potent hand-held RPG’s. Then they bomb the bejesus out of Palestinian Ghettos (within their own borders!) and, while succeeding in rubble-izing the place and causing great misery – among peoples quite literally armed only with rifles, rocks and slings – in the end the Israelis failed to stop a fusillade of largely symbolic fireworks being launched at them by an “opposing Army” of angry teenagers.”
    ….angry blowhards such as Avigdor Lieberman put on a bravado face but the reality of the Israeli Defense Force’s recent actions reveals yet again that great soldiers are not merely executioners. Knowing this, if you were living in ISRAEL today – you , too might succumb to rightwing fear-mongering: Forget offense, “wiping Muslim countries off the map.”
    If Israelis were actually attacked, could they even defend themselves?

    COMMENT: The world may be awakening to the biggest threat to world peace.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/ in Objectivity to Terrorism.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Fiona Reynolds has published an article by Dan Goldberg "over there". It includes the following:

    The bitter truth — hard as it may be to write, horrible as it is to admit — is that the occupation has brutalised us, corrupted our children and tarnished our image in the international arena.

    However, It also includes the usual demonisation of the President of Iran who is described as a tyrant. Oh, really?

    A passage that struck me was:

    Israel's miraculous military victory in 1967 saved the Jewish state from oblivion. But the consequences of that victory — the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza — may not save our souls. The quicksand is rising.

    What's miraculous is that the spin is allowed to persist. Another view of 1967:

    "The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was 'no threat of destruction' but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could 'exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.'...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: 'In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
    Was the 1967 war defenisve? - continued

    "I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
    Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights

    "Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

    And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'" The New York Times, May 11, 1997.


    In their own words. And I provided this material "over there" several years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  31. "The world's Jews have plenty of reasons to cry ... the morass we have been dragged into." - The world's Jews could help themselves and pull their collective fingers out, at the same get the Israelis to *GET OUT* of all illegally occupied Palestine. There will never be peace - there or anywhere else, unless justice is not just done, but seen to be done. No-one dragged any Israelis into Palestine - except Jews themselves. A pox on the whole evil lot.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Beware of the Geeks bearing gifts.

    I have noted about certain Jewish people of note who quietly tsk tsk about the behaviour of the Zionists and their Jewish supporters in new Israel, who are guilty of the Gaza Holocaust.

    However, I cannot remember one that has said the Jews should return to their countries of birth and those remaining in Palestine should become citizens of that State under government by the rightful owners - the Palestinians.

    As a boy, I remember that my family hated the passive attitude of European nations to the Nazi military demands - and the more they were given, the more they took.

    The well-meant but overly-exploited sympathy to the Jewish people for being hated because they were perceived as being disloyal, arrogant and financially power mad in almost every nation they lived in - was proven foolish by events pre/during and post WW 2.

    Palestinians are not just Arabs, not just Muslims or extreme Islamists or whatever, they ARE Palestinian citizens in whose State the original European Jews were welcomed and lived together peacefully albeit with the festering of Zionist terrorism.

    My understanding is that, at the finish of WW 2 all Gypsy; Russian; Jewish victims et al still alive in Concentration camps, were generally re-habilitated and given the opportunity to return to their nation of birth. Many did and settled comfortably in the post Nazi era.

    Certainly the British too (foolishly in perfect hindsight) welcomed them to Palestine, not for a future Statehood, but to live in peace while the war progressed.

    There can be no peace until that original situation is re-established and what is right is demanded by every free nation of the world.

    There should be a massive T/V media exhibition of what the Zionists have done to the Palestinians, Syrians, Tunisians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Iraqis, Lebanese and what they want to do to any other Arab citizens of the Middle East.

    Where is the Museum (paid for by the stolen wealth of Arab oil) that shows the holocaust of Gaza; West Bank; Armenia; Bosnia Herzegovina; Rwanda; Cambodia; the Balkans; the rape of Nanking and China; the mass murder of Christians in Russia between 1920-40 by - Zionist Commissars led by Trotsky!

    Hopefully, the uncontrollable new Israel will be treated exactly the same as every other radical group in the world today – and this can only happen if the US/Zionist control of world finances is forever removed by the incompetence of Wall Street.

    The current avoidable world financial disaster is a perfect example of the effects of unbridled capitalism – surely one of the Zionist Commandments?

    The only thing needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing?

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  33. To ID. and yourdemocracy.

    I think it is appropriate that I apologise to you and the editors of yourdemocracy for my often made mistakes.

    The editors of both sites have been extremely patient and I truly appreciate that.

    At my age it is a wonderful feeling to be able to express my opinions, albeit how radical they may seem, using real citizenship rights to think and reason.

    In my lifetime perhaps, opportunities to be more influential have been lost due to, as my Union mentor told me, "You are too honest".

    So you can imagine how much it is appreciated that at almost 79 years of age, I can finally have my say - whether right or wrong - to a group of people who are prepared to listen.

    What a pity it is that while we are in such a minority - it is frustrating to see so many injustices being committed without having any real influence to do anything about it?

    Nevertheless, you people in the "hidden basements of genuine objection" make subscribers like me, feel that my “military” service for my country was not wasted.

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  34. To put it in the vernacular "cop this":

    "The United Nations has appointed a former war crimes prosecutor to investigate offences allegedly committed by Israeli and Palestinian fighters during Israel's war on Gaza."

    "Richard Goldstone, a Jewish judge from South Africa, will lead a fact-finding team on the mission, ordered by the Human Rights Council in January."

    COMMENT: Why not an Arab Palestinian?

    Now that's fair isn't it? The Zionists who refuse to abide by any international rules of Justice, who have not ratified the International Criminal Court, who flagrantly abuse any form of the United Nations Charter of Human Rights - will have one of their own, from the land of Apartheid, appointed to judge whether the Zionists have committed any "crime" in GAZA. Fair dinkum?

    The spectre of the US/Israeli alliance raises its ugly head yet again.

    As ID quoted in WD-crippled "justice must not only be done but be seen to be done"!

    Now the very people who have ridiculed the United Nations; their rules and resolutions, will judge themselves!

    So, to harp on it, those of us who have tried to speak up against the maniac murderers of the Middle East can rest assured that a Jew from the land of Apartheid, will criticise the "heroic Israeli forces" for taking the "hard decision" of blockading the Gazans so they can't escape: starving; denying water or UNITED NATIONS aid; invading; bombing; shelling; using cluster bombs; phosphorus bombs and you name it - will be forced to stand before one of their own to be "Judged". Struth! I wonder what the Zionist God will command him through the prophets.

    Will the Middle East Murderers comply? If so it would have to be on their terms and theirs alone.

    Whatever these people decide will not be accepted by either the truth seekers or the liars themselves. So what does it achieve - a cover-up of course? Like one of Howard’s notorious “Royal Commissions”?

    Now we know why the powers that be have stopped the media from even mentioning the Gaza situation.

    But we can bet quids that the Gaza people are still suffering and dying courtesy of the holocaust hypocrites.

    Its time to put the latter in its true perspective.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au

    ReplyDelete
  35. I am learning. There is a pot boiling in the Middle East and the US must calm it down - temporarily.

    The more I research the history of the Jewish people and the Zionists among them, the more I begin to think and reason as to the hatred they have engendered over centuries - even by their own records.

    One such publication called "Jew Watch" is quite explicit in it's claims against vicious Jewish behaviour which, if true, could give as much credit to the Nazi so-called extermination plans as it would be expected to give to the current Jewish claims of "defence" in their new Israel.

    Whatever is the real tuth may never be known but, usually where there is smoke....

    If I consider by reason and logic that there definitely is a powerful Jewish/Zionist lobby in America and that, prior to WW 2 there was also a large Nazi movement there, just what amount of influence was the Jewish question of world power on the Hitler regime?

    The Gaza Holocaust has raised questions among thinkers that, how innocent and peaceful are the Jewish people really - when given greater power they themselves commit genocide for the purpose of stealing the land of a race that they abhor?

    A race which, by the "grace of God" which in fact had an origin similar to their own. Did they adopt the attitude that they were entitled to something better and, the refusal of the society of that time to accept that principle, caused them to feel ostracised and hated? To claim "foul"? They certainly don't accept umpires or referees do they?

    It is a fact as far as I am concerned that the media elects governments - at least here and in the US.

    If I am right in that assumption, what better way to achieve world supremacy than by taking over the "information channels" of the biggest power in the world?

    So I wonder - what power do the Zionists have in Japan/China and the far east? And there is no way they can hide their race when dealing with those nationals is there?

    Just one more point - I tried to have a post printed in Webdiary some time ago which asked the question - are the Jews a race or a religion. The editors refused to print it. Why?

    My point was simply this. IF the Jews are a religion [which seemed to me to be valid by the fact that people can become part of the Jewish religion by conversion] then the holocaust was not genocide if based on religion.

    Conversely, IF Jews are a race [superior] then the holocaust was genocide - just as bad and as unjustifiable as the many that have occurred over the centuries.

    ID is right. Truth seekers we are.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted with http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  36. I wonder whether the chief censor over there (Fiona Reynolds) thought anything about Dan Goldberg's chosen frames before deciding to highlight his essay.

    Goldberg starts with Pasech (Passover), evokes slavery, chains, shackles, and ties it to Jewish suffering, then frames the Palestinians with "terror". When he says "Palestinian terror" he clearly doesn't mean the terror that Palestinian civilians are subjected to by the ruthless child killers in the leadership and ranks of the Israeli army, navy, airforce, and "security" services (aka death squads), nor does he mean the terror inflicted upon the Palestinian people by zealous thieving killers that "settle" (i.e. steal) land on the West Bank).

    Golberg then choses to echo the preferred frames of Amos Oz (born Amos Klausner), which are a bizarre mix of handcuffs, prison, jailers, prisoners, and marriage/divorce, double-beds, and the family home. Perhaps it is fair to recall, when considering his preferred frames, that when he was twelve years old his right-wing Zionist mother committed suicide.

    Most telling about Goldberg's framing is that he attempts to distance the Israelis from their own policies, the very policies causing continued conflict.

    He states that "the occupation has brutalised us" rather than stating something more accurate (less distancing) like "our occupation reinforces our brutality."

    And that's his game: to blame someone/something else other than the Israelis. That's why he uses the "dragged into" frame twice: first, "the morass we have been dragged into", and then, "dragged into dusk".

    ReplyDelete
  37. Well put, orana. Of course, as the material provided above(and elsewhere, such as the Lendman provided by ID) shows, the occupation wasn't the unfortunate result of Israel defending itself. But the frame Goldberg used (as have others) is necessary cover for the expansionist agenda. If we look further back than 1967 we find some interesting material, but not of a type that fits the frame. For example.

    "The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], 'The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,'" Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."

    And:

    In 1919, the American King-Crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated, "The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor...The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase...

    "If [the] principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine—nearly nine-tenths of the whole—are emphatically against the entire Zionist program...To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted...No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms.The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program...The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a 'right' to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered." Quoted in "The Israel-Arab Reader" ed. Laquer and Rubin.


    Further on:

    "In 1948, at the moment that Israel declared itself a state, it legally owned a little more than 6 percent of the land of Palestine...After 1940, when the mandatory authority restricted Jewish land ownership to specific zones inside Palestine, there continued to be illegal buying (and selling) within the 65 percent of the total area restricted to Arabs.

    Thus when the partition plan was announced in 1947 it included land held illegally by Jews, which was incorporated as a fait accompli inside the borders of the Jewish state. And after Israel announced its statehood, an impressive series of laws legally assimilated huge tracts of Arab land (whose proprietors had become refugees, and were pronounced 'absentee landlords' in order to expropriate their lands and prevent their return under any circumstances)." Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."


    To the next section, the partition and just after.

    On the matter of recognizing agreements the attitude was:

    "In internal discussion in 1938 [David Ben-Gurion] stated that 'after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine'...In 1948, Menachem Begin declared that: 'The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever." Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."

    And:

    "While the Yishuv's leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israel's society—including...Ben-Gurion—were opposed to or extremely unhappy with partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state's borders beyond the UN earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians." Israeli historian, Benny Morris, in "Tikkun", March/April 1998.

    The opportunity was taken, as was that of 1967 and many less spectacular examples.

    Turning to the Gaza war crimes investigation.

    What to do about Israel's intransigence? Stephen Walt has a list of suggestions.

    Some are already trying.

    On another matter "over there", "Alan Curran" seems to have gone quiet. However, a new name has appeared - "John Fuller" - with similar themes, such as:

    I can well imagine that Israel has a plan for when Iran, Syria or Jordan try something against them. It will be quick and more precise than the seven day war.

    Having discussed the use if noms with Fiona, I am well aware that she would not be easily fooled.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Some thoughts on reality.

    How important has the Jewish question become to contemporary world peace?

    Accepting that some 0.2% of the world's population is Jewish (2008)then it is reasonable to assume that the effect of that race on world affairs should be minimal?

    IMHO there is surely no other minor race who have had such an effective influence on world affairs.

    Why is that so?

    Does any reason and logic explain that their God commanded them to control the world? And the Universe? Not by faith or even military invasion but, by the total extermination of those who oppose their God's command.

    As far as I can determine on the net, the many religions of the world, with the exception of the Jews/Hebrews/Zionists - have as their basic principles that there should be a fellowship of man and peace amongst humanity?

    They all suggested punishments for human rights violations according to their laws, which vary from one to another but, in the Jewish religion it seems that to kill is justified provided that the victims are not servants of Zion.

    I am still trying to understand the de-stablising effect that the Jewish people have on world affairs.

    I do not believe that because their Mothers or grand-Mothers were Jewish makes them acceptable to the "chosen race" any more than the intention of Hitler youth was to produce a perfect Aryan race.

    In fact, the latter would have had to be achieved by legal, physical and biological effort while the Zionist claim was "God-given" by birth.

    The actions of the Zionist/Jews over the last 60+ years, would have to create hatred amongst the pathetically innocent and defenceless victims of the Middle East.

    I wonder - yes I wonder - how Australians have been conned into fighting orchestrated American wars! Especially since we now know that Australian citizens are travelling to new Israel to take part in the reverse-holocaust!

    The Zionists believe that any non-Zionist is not entitled to live other than as a slave - why would the Germans who marched back from WW 1 with their rifles over their shoulders - accept the Treaty of Versailles?

    Why are the considered crimes of past anti-civilised people lost in the pages of history while the present [and past] murders of a new US Zionists excused by the powers that be?

    If I was a Jew and not dedicated to the childish/Nazi belief in being a master race, I would be ashamed. And these are the people who can bring about a withdrawal of Zionist forces from Palestine.

    Otherwise the distrust and anger against the Zionist invaders of Palestine could create a new holocaust to compete with the one they have knowingly created.

    Why?

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au

    ReplyDelete
  39. Excellent articles Orana and Bob.

    I just clicked on your link Bob of the Gaza War Crimes Investigation.

    One small example is:
    "The work of UN human rights investigator Richard Falk itself represents an inescapable indictment of the Israeli army. His statements and reports of recent months maintained that the Israeli blockade against Gaza is “an unconditional violation of international humanitarian law”, and that “massive assault on a densely populated urbanized setting, subjected the entire civilian population to “an inhumane form of warfare that kills, maims and inflicts mental harm”."

    So, while we in this forum concentrate on truth, "over there" still allows obvious lies and unsubstantiated claims without any remorse or feeling of guilt. And, while they are controlled by the Zionist' powers that be, nothing they allow to be printed can be accepted as factual.

    I say this because when the Australian Jewish people themselves created an interest in the Middle East Murderers of Palestinians in Gaza, I was so uninformed that it was ridiculous.

    I freely admit that my initial reaction was an obvious one - not very unlike the "we are entitled to defend ourselves" Zionist policy.

    The suggestions of brutality being the right of one race that was subsequently being printed "over there" convinced me that some people were stretching the envelope of belief.

    I began to argue against blatant lies and the mis-representation of historic facts which seemed to be so one-sided that perhaps research could answer some of my questions which were not allowed to be posted.

    I think the only weakness we have in this forum is that we believe in the truth and the ability of humanity to think and reason. Gee, we can even read!

    Bearing in mind the probability of some bias in the minds of historians and ignoring unprovable claims of Devine intervention, the facts of the brutal Zionist mentality and the relish with which the Jewish people in occupied Palestine voted for that Zionist government of Middle East murderers - certainly swings the Justice pendulum of accepted behaviour against them.

    One cannot research the now proven false claims of an ancient right to the Palestinian lands by the Zionists (and their false maps) without delving into factual records - even by the Jews themselves.

    What a Pandora’s Box? Or should I say "a can of worms"?

    Like the weaponless; disorganised and suppressed Palestinians, the Zionist control of the MSM is now an acknowledge fact - we are small voices in the wind but - it makes me feel better in myself to voice my opposition to the Gaza Holocaust.

    NE OUBLIE.

    ReplyDelete
  40. So many are now wondering WHO rules the US.

    In: http://www.stormfront.org/jewish/whorules.html I quote:

    The average American, of whose daily life TV-watching takes such an unhealthy portion, distinguishes between these fictional situations and reality only with difficulty, if at all. He responds to the televised actions, statements, and attitudes of TV actors much as he does to his own peers in real life.

    For all too many Americans the real world has been replaced by the false reality of the TV environment, and it is to this false reality that his urge to conform responds. Thus, when a TV scriptwriter expresses approval of some ideas and actions through the TV characters for whom he is writing, and disapproval of others, he exerts a powerful pressure on millions of viewers toward conformity with his own views.
    And as it is with TV entertainment, so it is also with the news, whether televised or printed.

    The insidious thing about this form of thought control is that even when we realize that entertainment or news is biased, the media masters still are able to manipulate most of us.

    This is because they not only slant what they present, but they establish tacit boundaries and ground rules for the permissible spectrum of opinion.

    As an example, consider the media treatment of Middle East news. Some editors or commentators are slavishly pro-Israel in their every utterance, while others seem nearly neutral. No one, however, dares suggest that the U.S. government is backing the wrong side in the Arab-Jewish conflict and that it served Jewish interests rather than American interests to send U.S. forces to cripple Iraq, Israel's principal rival in the Middle East.

    Thus, a spectrum of permissible opinion, from pro-Israel to nearly neutral, is established." End of quote.

    When I was contributing “over there” I kept arguing that the media elects governments, whether they exist in a Dictatorship or in a Monarchy or in a Democracy.

    At first strangely, the Jewish Zionists (as I read them now in that controlled forum) were the first, and in retrospect, possibly the only angry ones who denied that possibility.

    Research again seems to raise the voices of reason and logic that supports what we should define as obvious.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-printed in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  41. G'day Ernest, Bob can always be relied upon for links to the very best articles.

    Over there the "management team", desperate for providers of free content because they'd viciously turned upon and bit the hands that fed them, have taken now to actively promoting a pro-war, pro-Zionist propagandist.

    "Richard: A look at a Hamas-controlled society would be a cracker of a threadstarter, Eliot. Looking forward to reading it!"

    This person, now using the name "Eliot Ramsey", is a long practiced Internet troll who attacked Indymedia sites relentlessly.

    He's a perpetual liar. He's a propagandist. He's a sicko constantly seeking to get off on schadenfreude).

    How long before he's invited to join them in their "management team"?

    ReplyDelete
  42. The power of the media has been “nationalised Jewish”.

    Well might we understand why the Howard “New Order” opened up the cross-media ownership laws? And why the editors "over there" are so pro-Israeli.

    From www.natall.com/who-rules-america/index.html

    "THERE IS NO GREATER POWER in the world today than that wielded by the manipulators of public opinion in America. No king or pope of old, no conquering general or high priest ever disposed of a power even remotely approaching that of the few dozen men who control America's mass media of news and entertainment."

    "Their power is not distant and impersonal; it reaches into every home in America, and it works its will during nearly every waking hour. It is the power that shapes and molds the mind of virtually every citizen, young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated."

    "The mass media form for us our image of the world and then tell us what to think about that image. Essentially everything we know—or think we know—about events outside our own neighborhood or circle of acquaintances comes to us via our daily newspaper, our weekly news magazine, our radio, or our television."

    "It is not just the heavy-handed suppression of certain news stories from our newspapers or the blatant propagandizing of history-distorting TV "docudramas" that characterizes the opinion-manipulating techniques of the media masters. They exercise both subtlety and thoroughness in their management of the news and the entertainment that they present to us."

    "For example, the way in which the news is covered: which items are emphasized and which are played down; the reporter's choice of words, tone of voice, and facial expressions; the wording of headlines; the choice of illustrations—all of these things subliminally and yet profoundly affect the way in which we interpret what we see or hear."

    "On top of this, of course, the columnists and editors remove any remaining doubt from our minds as to just what we are to think about it all. Employing carefully developed psychological techniques, they guide our thought and opinion so that we can be in tune with the "in" crowd, the "beautiful people," the "smart money." They let us know exactly what our attitudes should be toward various types of people and behavior by placing those people or that behavior in the context of a TV drama or situation comedy and having the other TV characters react in the Politically Correct way."

    The seven major Jewish American players in this disgraceful situation includes Rupert Murdoch who is reportedly a strong pro-Zionist and supporter of Benjamin Netanyahu.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  43. If the Polish people controlled the media...?

    The bigotry of webdiary "over there" really forced me to research into the history and character of the Zionist/Jewish race and the converts who chose to shelter under their power. It was almost a case of that considering Jewish faults were a crime – and my Taurean nature couldn’t cop that.

    The Zionists have become – again at least in my mind - a separate, radical and extremely dangerous group of world dominants, far more cruel and fearsome because of their insidious methods than the Nazi regime ever could have been.

    Under the guise of the democracy "marketing ploy" they have taken over the most effective methods of controlling the hearts and minds of the paranoiac war conditioned people of the United States of America.

    Now I am more disposed to feel sorry for them at least for their false pride in their flag, their country and what it really stands for now. And for the apparent fact that their economy was and is, mainly controlled by Jews like Malcolm Turnbull’s Goldman Sachs.

    An interesting aside is that when Malcolm was the Howard “New Order’s “Water Minister” he was negotiating with the Israelis over the water control including the Snowy River and signed an Instrument of Intent.

    It is also interesting that his Labor opponent in the 2007 federal election in Wentworth was, I believe by memory, a Jewish man named Newhouse. The latter wrote that while Malcolm was not a Jew – he was a wannabe. How close were we to another America – and still could be.

    According to the independent media – 78% of American Jews voted for Obama and whilst that figure could only have a minor effect on the ultimate result, it nevertheless is an indication of in what direction the Zionist controlled media were encouraging the voters. G.W. Bush was their choice also but he had passed his use-by date.

    I also wondered how history would treat Adolf Hitler IF there had not been a Holocaust? Let’s face it; the people who control the media must also suppress any disagreement with their propaganda by severely censoring programs.

    I would like to be able to study the situation in the Kaiser’s Germany during and after WW I and, is it racist to say that Negroes are black?

    History has a habit of repeating and repeating because it seems no lessons are learned.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  44. The Zionist ownership of hearts and minds and the labour of slaves.

    I was surprised to find out that some people denied the holocaust UNTIL I heard about "democracies" that have banned that THOUGHT and would jail any citizen who even expresses such an opinion!!! Fair dinkum.

    It must be clear to everyone with any modest education like me that the "dark abyss" of Zionist world control was not just a Nazi myth. It is real - at least now - and becoming more and more obvious as long as there is a breath of freedom in people who can communicate with each other by modern technology.

    During the Howard "New Order" there were snide attempts to control the electronic media (obviously for the Zionist Jew Rupert Murdoch) but the greed of the masters of that technology was greater than the desire to stop it?

    When we are able to access opinions or facts which are in stark contrast to the main stream media it serves at least two purposes.

    One - we have the opportunity of deciding for ourselves and it helps to assert that, in finality, major decisions of life and liberty really are, black and white.

    Two - the suppression of free thought and expression desired by the Zionists for total control is less likely if some of them are profiting by those means of communication.

    The false charade of the US being the beacon of freedom is now as shattered as the world financial system. A product of massive wealth to a few and equal distress to massive numbers of poor.

    It is probably true that, if people want total control they must first "buy" the "lives and labour" of the contemporary most powerful force in the world. Why try to contest that "Ivory Tower" when you can simply buy it?

    When we use technology to obtain the facts about who owns or controls what in the US - one thing is certain - the propensity of Zionist Jews is massively disproportionate to their numbers in the total population and even in the "who's who" of personal wealth.

    So the facts seem to be that the five million plus Jews in America are joined at the hip with the five million plus in occupied Palestine.

    Since the Zionists are reported to own or control some 96% of the main stream media in the US, it is reasonable to assume that their power to influence is too concentrated to allow any real competition.

    Since they also have enormous influence in Australia (even in AusBC) it is also reasonable to assume that we do not receive the full truth of what is happening in the World Trade Organisation?

    However I have, in recent times, wondered at the riots and the European citizens' anger at the policies of the WTO?

    Why did the 9/11 attackers target the WTO buildings - the Pentagon and the White House?

    Why did the reported 4000 Jews employed in those buildings have a day off claiming that it was a Jewish holiday? I could not find that in the records of their faith.

    Why did a Mr. Silverstein buy and insure Tower 7 only some months before the disaster, and even though not attacked - collapsed anyway? He made quite a financial “killing” due to that disaster.

    Was it Abraham Lincoln who said: "God must love the poor/little people because he made so many of them"? Struth.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-printed in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  45. How far can the Zionists go?

    I have just finished a post which commends the ability of people like us who search for truth by having access to the information provided by modern technology.

    I have also commented that the Zionists must control this technology to achieve their objective.

    Now I have found this on the Google website of "Jew watch com/"

    “To: Google.com
    When performing a search for the word "Jew" on google.. the first result
    is a site that has been notorious for being anti-semitic.. the site is
    called jewwatch.com .... Google is the # 1 search site and the fact that
    The first search result would yield an anti-semetic site is all too
    common in a growing era of increased Anti Semetism... In order for
    google to remove this They would need a petition of over 50,000
    requests....”

    End of quote. The price of maximum control should be maximum exposure.

    This means to me one new fact - the Zionists do not YET control Google?

    The absolute arrogance of these people, who think that they are protected by a vicious and violent God, is unbelievable.

    As their Zionist Murdoch newspapers so often exclaim, "If they have nothing to hide" why the complaint?

    We can now be assured that the purpose of these Zionists is to destroy any semblance of opposition, where ever it may survive.

    If I was an ordinary Jewish person by race or religion, would I really appreciate the almost "Phoenix" revival of the recorded reasons for the hatred of Jews?

    But like the Zionists, we must take no prisoners if we are entitled to that opinion.

    If the slow but insidious Zionist restrictions of the search engines continues, whether by direct purchase of decency or by threats of boycotts - what is left to the people of any democracy?

    The Zionist controlled media has gone quiet on the Middle East Murders.

    Why is that so?

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted on http://yourdemocracy.net.au/

    ReplyDelete
  46. Large Oaks From Little Acorns Grow.

    Since the Gaza Holocaust and its support by the Hebrew media and the hyprocritical terrorists in the US - I have tried to find out by researching, for and against, what the truth of the history of the Canaanitic Semite Tribes could really be.

    However, in doing so I came across, among many other items too many to mention, that articulates the subject of which I have profound dislike - the Zionist argument against "Thought Crime" just for the sake of hiding the history that the Hebrews do not want publicised.

    On http://codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/0104toben.html I found this:

    "SHOW ME OR DRAW ME A NAZI GAS CHAMBER !"
    ...Professor Robert Faurisson
    ThoughtCrimes
    Archive
    ThoughtCrime: 04/04/01

    Australian Jews take Legal action against Dr. Töben

    Australia's Jewish community has taken court action against Dr. Fredrick Töben, director of the revisionist think tank, the Adelaide Institute .

    The Executive Council of Australian Jewry is seeking the enforcement of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission (HREOC) order that Holocaust revisionist material be removed from the Adelaide Institute Website and that Töben apologize to the council's national vice-president Jeremy Jones.

    The Orwellian named “Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission” actually seeks to prevent Töben from exercising his right of free speech.

    Dr. Fredrick Töben, Director of Adelaide Institute

    Töben responded to news of the legal action, "HREOC's procedure is terribly flawed, it's an irrational business of reaching a conclusion on the basis of hurt feelings." Töben continued, "The principle of free speech is at stake here."

    Töben explained on the radio why he couldn’t comply with the “Human Right’s Commission’s orders, "No, I can't do that because I consider the Human Rights Commission's findings to be immoral and of no legal effect."

    "It is not a matter of asking whether I have caused hurt, because I can throw that back at the (Jewish) community and say that, with my German background, they're hurting me by continuing to assert that Germans systematically exterminated European Jewry in homicidal gas chambers. I found out that the gas chambers never existed."

    Töben, who holds a PhD in philosophy argued, "Truth will be my defense because if you take away my freedom to think and to speak, then you take away my humanity."

    Jeremy Jones argues that the Jewish community is correct in its attempt to censor information on the Web because the material in question is "blatantly anti-Jewish and blatantly racist."

    A hearing for the case against Dr. Töben is set for May.

    "Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime IS death."
    George Orwell

    COMMENT: It occurs to me that Dr. Toben makes several stiking points, one of which is that, even under the United Nations Charter of Human Rights, he has the right to believe anything he wants - to think it, believe it and be prepared to stand by it.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/ Gaza Holocaust.

    ReplyDelete
  47. And the result of Jews v Free speech?

    Refer: http://galexia.com/public/research/articles/research_articles-art22.html

    "In the first Australian court decision on race hate and the Internet, the Federal Court found that a website that denied the Holocaust and vilified Jewish people was unlawful under Australia’s Racial Discrimination Act 1975.

    Federal Court Justice Branson ordered Adelaide Institute director Fredrick Toben to remove offensive material from the World Wide Web, saying she was ‘satisfied that it is more probable than not that the material would engender in Jewish Australians a sense of being treated contemptuously, disrespectfully and offensively’.

    She ordered Dr Toben to remove the document ‘About the Adelaide Institute’ and similar documents; and other material that cast doubt on the Holocaust, suggested homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz were unlikely, that Jewish people offended by and who challenge Holocaust denial are of limited intelligence and that some Jewish people, for improper purposes, including financial gain, exaggerated the number of Jews killed during World War II and the circumstances in which they were killed.

    Dr Toben did not obtain legal representation, and did not actually defend his case; as such, the exceptions permitted under the RDA of academic discussions, public interest matters and fair personal comments were not argued.

    Nevertheless the case confirms that, at least for Australian sites, the Internet is subject to the same legal standards as other forms of communications such as print, TV and radio.

    This is the first Australian case where the Act has been applied to the Internet.

    One can only consider whether or not any other race on earth has ever gone to this extreme in the Federal Court of Australia because someone dared NOT to agree with their take on the millions of murders - by both sides - because they were offended. Struth.

    Any wonder they continue to get away with murder and crimes in Palestine and, dare I say, Australia too?

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/ Gaza Holocaust.

    ReplyDelete
  48. We need a psychologist, to answer a few (many!) questions about the (filthy!) propaganda emanating from or on behalf of the so-called 'Israel Lobby.' Consider what they say: that holocaust denial in any way, shape or form - is to be considered a crime (free speech?) That any who criticise Jewish people in any way, shape or form - are instantly to be labelled 'anti-Semites' (free opinion?) That the state of Israel is claimed to have some sort of 'right to exist,' when that is arguable at best and risible anyway, given the US/Israeli contempt for and violation of UN principles in particular and international law in general (truth and justice?) Then, there's H-speech, we've heard about the so-called Godwin's Rule, that the longer an internet discussion goes, the more likely some reference to a certain German regime will occur; it seems to me that almost every discussion of Jewish people in general or Zionism in particular quickly degenerates to the H-word level.

    Sooo, to the psychologist(s): just why is it, they are so negative, so disgustingly nasty?

    Good points and questions, Ern.

    ReplyDelete
  49. The story of Ernst Zundel is worth googling.

    I found this one preceding his so-called trial.

    Joined: 24 Nov 2002
    Posts: 5419 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:33 pm Download Post Post subject: K. Käther of the 'Self-Accusation Movement' in court !!!

    ________________________________________
    I received this from Dr. Ingrid Rimlad, the brilliant wife of imprisoned Thought Criminal, Ernst Zundel.

    Here we have a critically important example of an interesting tactic now being employed in Germany. Essentially that tactic goes something like this; a brave and rationally minded individual says ... 'The so called holocaust story line is a load of nonsense, I can defend that statement, laws which ban scrutiny of it prove my point, now arrest me and put me on trial !'.

    Below we have an outline of one man's, Kevin Käther, effort. Comments invited.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurdity and impossibility of the 'holocaust' story is the message.

    - Hannover
    Quote:

    [Translator's preface]

    Mr. Kevin Käther is a representative of the growing "Self-Accusation"
    movement, or citizens' demanding that they be charged and tried for
    crimes of opinion.

    The following trial report reflects the growing courage, enthusiasm
    and freshness of vision among patriotic young Germans as they answer
    the call for a new kind of civil disobedience. They are publicly
    "confessing" the "crime" of expressing opinions critical of their
    government's inquisitorial enforcement of official historiography, as
    well as their government's slavish adherence to the outrageous
    conditions imposed on Germany by the victors of World Wars I and II
    in clear violation of international law.

    In the tradition of Henry Thoreau and Mahatma Gandhi, the new
    activists demand that they be tried and punished for their crimes.
    Growing numbers of judges and public officials are also expressing
    their opposition to governmental tyranny. How long will the present
    regime be able to resist popular pressure for human rights, a
    constitution and an end to military occupation by the USA?

    COMMENT: I have not fully read the history of this man Ernst Zundel, who had the courage to stand up to the slavish Hebrew demanded behaviour of his own government and the oppressing presence of the US occupation forces.

    Viewing the news regarding the Richard Pratt funeral - and the wooden or perhaps cardboard coffin that had been provided for him - I could not but remember one of the many thoughts that were common in my childhood - "Jews do not spend money - they accumulate it".

    It also struck a chord with me when the man made this statement - "'The so called holocaust story line is a load of nonsense, I can defend that statement, laws which ban scrutiny of it prove my point, now arrest me and put me on trial !".

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/ Gaza Holocaust.

    ReplyDelete
  50. "We need a psychologist ..."

    I am a psychologist. What are the questions?

    ReplyDelete
  51. OK; one at a time; how is it that the I/J/Z-plex can accuse all and sundry of directing the H-concept at them, without drawing attention to the obvious fact that the actions of the very same I/J/Z-plex are possibly (allowing for a single exception) the most H-ful of all?

    In plain text, if they do hateful things, why do they complain when they get the appropriate response?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Perhaps it might better if we re-formulate the question. Asking "Why?" doesn't help much; a better question is "How," as in how can we be most effective in restoring truth and justice?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Ahhh ... The question: Why is it, they (Zionists) are so negative, so disgustingly nasty?

    In 1976 Plume published Professor Jay Y. Gonen's A Psychohistory of Zionism. I'll get my hands on a copy, read it thoroughly, and understand his point of view prior to making and sharing my own conclusions.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Thanks and good; I'm pretty sure it'll be worth the wait. Meanwhile, I had the following 'in draft:'

    When the AusBC next reports (in Oh, so dulcet, 'balanced' tones) on someone or other 'progressing the ME peace process,' one could perhaps refer them to this article:
     
    April 30, 2009
    Seamless Continuity From Bush Time
    Obama and "Two States"
      «What is the alternative to Taba? Or to the Geneva initiative (in the very unlikely event that the Obama administration were to take it up again)? In the ruins of Gaza people hover on the edges of bare survival (among other ravages of the siege alone, which continues unremittingly, is stunted growth in young children, noted in a recent Lancet report) in the West Bank, California-like suburban settlements ravage the former beauty of Palestine’s hills, slicing and dicing what remains of Palestine’s villages and cities; two armies and brutal vigilantes attack any form of resistance, however peaceful, and the usual suffering (evictions, home demolitions and more) goes on under US-Israel rule.» 
    [counterpunch/Ellen Cantarow]
     
    No one can say (with a straight face!) - that there has been much if any effective progress towards peace - in living memory. The ugly, cancerous growth of the Z-invader-state is never reversed; the Palestinians are forced into ever reducing areas, they are 'sanctioned' (read: starved of resources; food, fuel, medicines etc.) and are under continuous threat of violence, when not under actual, (war crime!) aggressive attack. We can all see this, and for the US, the mightiest (and not so incidentally, arguably the most evil) empire of all time, to be unable to a) bring peace and b) restrain their mad-dog's tail is - you may add your own descriptor; mine is incomprehensible. The ME-peace process is total sham; they never make progress because they never intend to. In a nutshell, it's not what they say, but what they do.
     
    But: why do we have to point all this out? Why doesn't the AusBC 'tell it like it is?' Eh?
     

    ReplyDelete
  55. This interview with Gonen, whilst loaded with banter between the participants that is useless to us, does contain some clues as to the content of A Psychohistory of Zionism.

    For example:

    I also examined the enormous narcissistic knockout punch delivered to Jews and Israelis by the Holocaust. In terms of their psyche, it branded them with passivity as a fatal flaw -- with some kind of congenital nebbish attitude exposing them to the worst vagaries of life. It reinforced the notion that it was high time to reverse the course of Judaism. The book probed the psychological issues of Zionism, especially the grab for omnipotence.

    ReplyDelete
  56. My, what interesting words Gonen has:

    1. narcissistic knockout punch (not quite as great as they thought they were?)

    2. congenital nebbish (racism? Minderwertigkeitskomplex?)

    3. grab for omnipotence (surely, one has it - or IF not THEN absolutely no point at all in any 'grabbing?')

    Seriously, *none* of this is 'healthy' in language and/or concept. But then, of course, IF they were healthy THEN they wouldn't be in the business of murdering for land and water...

    ReplyDelete
  57. Another clue: A reference to the Masada Complex.

    In the early 60s the expressions "Masada Complex" and "Masada Syndrome" began to be used to describe the attitude that Israel "must face on its own insurmountable odds".

    It draws from *memory* of the Roman army's siege of the Masada fortress after the first Jewish-Roman War (which some call "The Great Revolt").

    Nixon's US Secretary of State William Pierce Rogers used it in the 70s.

    It also appeared in Newsweek articles of that era, including one by Stewart Alsop.

    Golder Meir responded to Alsop: "You say that we have a Masada complex. . . It is true we do have a Masada complex. We have a pogrom complex. We have a Hitler complex."

    ReplyDelete
  58. Perhaps I could try re-phrasing my question:

    1. Context, the I/J/Z-plex is involved in murder for land and water, 60+ years long and continuing with no end in sight.

    2. As such, they run PR-campaigns, in (thanks, internet) a now-seen to be futile attempt at disguising their actual, visible, disgusting crimes.

    3. On the way, they introduce and emphasize the H-word (including screeching "Self-hating Jew!" at some of their own); accuse any critics of anti-Semitism, accuse any who dare raise queries "Holocaust deniers," and in general use lots of v.bad words - as if they hadn't heard let alone appreciated Lakoffian framing.

    So to the Q: By their own language, they vilify themselves as they offensively deny valid criticism. Just how 'smart' is that (especially for those grabbing for omnipotence)?

    ReplyDelete
  59. It's not 'smart', like faith (belief without proof), in a god for example, is not 'smart'.

    Crede, ut intelligas? No, Auggie, you're wrong. Faith, as Dawkins advised, is a process of active non-thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  60. OK; Latin:

    Oderint dum metuant.
    They might say "Who cares about honour? - as long as it works." (Tip: injustice can never prevail.)

    Carthago delenda est.
    "Live by the sword," etc. (Besides, think of the *smart* option??!)

    -=*=-

    But for myself, I would say something different; ta ra! - my ME-peace plan (inspired by truth and justice.)

    1. OK to 'right to exist' for Israel - just as long as the right to exist for every Palestinian takes precedence.

    2. OK to 'right to defend' for Israel - just as long as they only defend what is strictly, *legally* theirs; which would mean straight back to the 1947/48 boundaries, *before* any trumped-up cause-predicated military actions. Stolen property is indefensible, give back or adequately recompense all illegally acquired land and/or buildings.

    2a. Once retired behind legal boundaries, no crossing *out*, ever. Defence means just that, end any and all offensive, illegal (risibly named) IDF actions. This clause should take immediate, independent and 101% effect.

    2b. One 'holy(??!) principle' one continually hears, is respect for private property. Any property *not* properly, legally acquired is - in the case of Israeli stolen Palestinian land, property acquired under duress: GIVE IT BACK! GIVE IT ALL BACK! SOONEST!

    3. 'A country of laws;' respect the law, including UN resolutions; in general, only *just* laws are enforceable, all just laws should be respected (and all unjust laws struck down); there can never be peace without justice.

    Or some such; a just peace would allow *all* to live in peace, there'd be no reason for anyone to attack any other, and the current criminal elements could all begin building some honour, some self-respect. It's (long overdue) time!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Getting back to psychology and psychohistory; Asimov's "Foundation" series (from my (poor?) recall), depended on some concept called 'psychohistory' - but I thought that was just his fantasy-invention. Like a lot of stuff in those (good old?) days, the heroes were only ever honourable, and always worked for truth & justice-based peace. Going on the Gonen quotes, and recalling 'not what they say but what they do,' I start drifting towards cognitive dissonance.

    Sooo, a big 'jump' to a BIG Q1: what happened to decent motives, what happened to honourable men? Q2: Why are we sheople (most of the human race, *A GREAT MAJORITY*) - suffering due to rip-offs perpetrated by murdering crooks?
     

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  62. From Alan Dowty's The Jewish State: A Century Later, chapter 3 'The Zionist Revolution', section 1 'The Impact of Ideology: Nationalism, Socialism, Liberalism':

    By the time Zionism emerged, however, nationalism was slipping from this liberal and universalizable form to more particularistic expressions. Far from accommodating the rights of other peoples on an equal basis, this more assertive nationalism focused on the presumed virtues or rights of a particular people. Taken to the extreme (with Italy and Germany again as illustrations), in its twentieth-century manifestations it preached not only racial or ethnic homogeneity but also denial of self-determination to others.

    ...

    Historically, Zionism was an emulation of the first nationalism and a defense against the excesses of the second. In its earlier guise, liberal nationalism in league with democratization had indeed improved the situation of Jews throughout Europe. But in its later manifestation as “exclusive” nationalism, the position of Jews in new nation-states became increasingly precarious. The drive for a Jewish state therefore had behind it both a powerful positive pull, in the desire for Jewish self-determination and selfexpression, and a strong negative push, in the simple need for escape from this second strain of nationalism.

    ....

    Eventually some within the Zionist movement also moved from the first form of nationalism to a more assertive and particularistic version. Like their counterparts in Europe, the “nationalist right” among Zionists asserted the exclusive right of the Jewish people to all of Eretz Yisrael, condemned any “compromise” of this right, and stressed the values of order, discipline, and authority above individual rights and democracy.[5] Organized as the Revisionist movement in the 1920s, under the leadership of Vladimir Ze’ev Jabotinsky, this viewpoint was taken to extremes by others (some even copied elements of European fascism at its peak in the 1930s). Revisionists sought to realize their goals through a political-military strategy, rather than by the slow buildup of a Jewish presence through grassroots settlement activity—Zionism from the top rather than from the bottom.

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  63. To sum the lengthy paragraphs above:

    After Jabotinsky, Zionism became evermore an aggressive nationalism (like Nazism).

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  64. Well done orana gelar, you've anticipated my 'next step:'

      «Psychohistory is the study of the psychological motivations of historical events. It combines the insights of psychotherapy with the research methodology of the social sciences to understand the emotional origin of the social and political behavior of groups and nations, past and present. Its subject matter is childhood and the family (especially child abuse), and psychological studies of anthropology and ethnology.
     
    ...
     
      Group Psychohistory - which seeks to understand the motivations of large groups, including nations, in history and current affairs. In doing so, psychohistory advances the use of group-fantasy analysis of political speeches, political cartoons and media headlines since the fantasy words therein offer clues to unconscious thinking and behaviors.»
     
    [wiki/Psychohistory]
     
    One can see what might be going on, and an immediate, ultra-compelling objection:
     
    They (the I/J/Z-plex) try to blame (attribute, excuse) their current bad behaviour (murder for land and water) on the (undenied) horrors of the Holocaust. As we see. But, and it's an *humongous* BUT: the Zionists determined to 'grab' Palestine *looong before* WW2.
     
    (switching back to 'thinking' mode...)
     

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  65. But nevertheless a quick summary: two wrongs *can never* make a right anyway - whether allegedly 'god'-given or whatever the hell else; and the inalienable rights of the Palestinians, to their property and their very lives must override any risible claims idly asserted by the invading Zionists. Also as we know; so to the next Q: Where is justice? 
     

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  66. Justice, an idea/ideal is *forgotten* when *feelings* determine behaviour.

    Psychiatrists have found the motivations for murder involve extremely low self esteem — e.g. the murderer saying "I never got so much respect before in my life as I did when I first pointed a gun at somebody".

    They've also found that suicidal individuals have inner parental voices that tell them they are "bad" and demand their deaths.

    Lloyd deMause, pioneer psychohistorian, has found that nations that commit genocide do so on the basis of a group-fantasy and are in fact punishing themselves.

    Early childhood fears of helplessness create a "time bomb" set to go off when an adult believes too much freedom is resented by his/her inner parental voices.

    The inner parental voices in an ethnocentric/nationalist oriented population are labeled *God*, *Mother/Fatherland*, etc.

    Implanted during childhood (in their dissociated early fear) the voices tell a person they are bad for wanting things for themselves and that they must be punished.

    The child, rather than losing the parent’s care (which was usually the mother’s care, since historically fathers were mainly absent in a child's infancy), identifies, or "fuses" with the persecuting parent and punishes someone else as a "Bad Self" scapegoat (symbolically *bad children*).

    Reflect for a mo' at this point on how *antisemitism* is defined to exclude the *other* semites, the non-Jewish semitic branch, i.e. Arabs. Also on how the *bad children* frame is deployed, particularly against the Palestinians.

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  67. A little over a week ago I attend a community recovery meeting (re the Black Saturday bushfires) and Dr Rob Gordon, a psychiatrist and expert in disaster recovery, said something which is pertinent in our current dialogue.

    He spoke about our brains and how we actually have, as product of evolution, three brain structures (which are arranged a bit like an onion).

    Normally we're using all three, but prime is our human brain (the big outer part that thinks, reasons, etc).

    When we're emotional we're letting the middle, animal/chimp-like brain take the lead.

    When we're in crisis, it's the inner, earliest, reptile brain that takes over. It literally shuts down the outer, human brain because that uses up too much energy (which in a crisis needs to be conserved).

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  68. Late note: just seen your latest. Crisis? What crisis? The I/J/Z-plex has been murdering for land and water for 60+ years. Next layer (like an onion:)

    You've saved me from a 3-in-a-row. Quick reaction: the word anti-Semitism is not used literally, as you point out we've moved (been dragged) into emotional frames; anti-Semitism is deployed by I/J/Z-plex as code, in the H-speech frame. Here is the rest that I had drafted (inner layer):

    It is the I/J/Z-plex that (who) deploys the H-word; it is the I/J/Z-plex that (who) accuses critics voicing valid criticism of anti-Semitism; it is the I/J/Z-plex that (who) rant and rave against Iran (a country basically minding its own business), it is the I/J/Z-plex that (who) has captured and subjugated the legislature of the mightiest empire the planet has ever had the misfortune to suffer under.

    Now, out of the onion & back to your emotional frames; the US self-styles itself as leader of the 'free' world as well as the world's policeman, the I/J/Z-plex self-styles itself as some brave little David facing a (radical) Arab, (extremist) Muslim, but in any case bad, bad, bad Goliath. Both the US and Israel self-style themselves as exceptional.

    Since each of the above diverge (radically!) from reality, how do they avoid self-destruction via explosive & terminal cognitive dissonance?

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  69. I do not suppose that it is coincidence, that we are 'birds-of-a-feathering' along with the Curtis 'psycho-manipulation' videos (7hrs, 1.5Gb; links available - horrible for me to assimilate.)

    A main idea is that a) humans contain bad impulses, so b) the risibly, wrongly termed 'élites' set out to manipulate their serfs (i.e. us, we the sheople), to prevent us all from flipping out and causing wars. What? You find that impossible? Yes, oddly enough I do too, and as Göring pointed out, the sheople simply don't want war - but a peaceful, productive and happy life.

    But: we are manipulated in any case (marketing, politics: all LIES!) - but worse, we've still got the rip-offs (injustices), we've still got the wars (murder for spoil.)

    Big, bigger, BIGGEST Q: What went wrong? A: Vested interests, but (looping), we've got democracies. For the sheople etc. Bummer: doesn't work. Nothing works, except the rich getting richer, right up to the point of actually now having killed off demand, i.e. the golden goose is dead.
     

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  70. Must shutdown o/n now, but rather than wait until tomorrow will just say for now that the three layers reminder wasn't to imply that the aggressive nationalism of Zionism arises from a real crisis situation; just a perceived one (arising from self-delusion) giving rise to Masada Syndrome?

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  71. Cat chasing its tail; à demain.

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  72. Possible point-of-departure:
     
    Psychohistorians, on the other hand, suggest that social behavior such as crime and war may be a self-destructive re-enactment of earlier abuse and neglect; ... 
     
    But whatever (escapist) explanation, there is simply no possible excusing the accumulated Israeli crimes against Palestine.
     

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  73. Flashing *RED* light:

      «There is notwithstanding an optimistic trait in the field. Psychohistorians believe that when violence against children disappears in the Muslim world, the murderous drive of Islamic terrorists will fade away.[19] In a world of "helping mode" parents, deMause believes, violence of any other sort will disappear as well, along with magical thinking, mental disorders, wars and other inhumanities of man against man.» 

    1. Before any alleged "murderous drive of Islamic terrorists" can be pinned on any Muslim child-raising, any such drive a) must be proven to exist - as anything more than coming from an atypical and v.small minority, b) must be proven *not* to be the result of any CIA-type subversion (see blow-back, see CIA-created proto-Al-Qaeda, etc.), and c) must be *proven* to relate to exactly what Muslim child-raising, and how. (Summary: gobsmacked.)

    2. I have had the irregular occasion to observe a pair of "helping mode" parents, and the results to-date do not look too optimal (massive understatement). On a wider basis, if what we see out on the streets or in the malls, (worse) in the schools or (worst!) in the universities 'these days' is the result of "helping mode" parents, then paraphrasing Gough, well may we say "Dog Save the Queen," because nothing will save us from this "helping mode" generation. Independently of that 'fractured family' and going on my own estimation, generalising from the part to the whole - but nevertheless rooted firmly in direct, personal observations, (financial!) violence, magical thinking, mental disorders, wars and other inhumanities of man against man are not well associated with the Muslim world - rather more, *intimately, even exclusively* with the US of A and Israel - as primary causative agents. And their main child-raising tactic is? Stick the littlies in front of a TV, just as soon as they can sit up. After that, ignore. For sure, they may well love them dearly - but only from afar, natch. Like, getting them soonest into a private school (keyword: 'busing.')

    Now, of course, the current wars - Afghanistan (murder for pipeline), Iraq (murder for oil), 60+years long Israel murdering to steal Palestinian land - were not perpetrated by any "helping mode" children, but the perpetrators themselves - silver-spooners almost to a wo/man, would not have experienced too much parental violence; on this basis, the theory is (detested Ameri-speak; spit!) - a crock.

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  74. Screeching *LOUD* siren:

    That particular application of the psychohistory *theories* was the product of Dr Robert W.Godwin, aka Gagdad Bob. He's been online saying things like:

    "It is liberal policies that end in cruelty ­ uneducated children, the destruction of the black family, mismanaged cities, increased crime, etc., etc."

    He's a rabid right winger using psychohistory to serve his biases

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  75. Ever so slightly off-topic - but nevertheless of *massive* importance, is "Bringing up Baby," (a thought-book of mine), and what happens after the baby gets booted out of the nest, i.e. goes off to Kinder then school & onwards. It's a bit like that silly joke about opinions: everybody has one - in this case, child-rearing methods. (As Watzlawick says, "One Cannot Not Communicate"); IF one has a baby THEN one has a method, even if the method can be over-described as "Do nothing."

    We were a bit surprised to find a squillion 'child-rearing' books, most of which had little (down to nothing) of practical use. It has been a screech of mine since the 70s, that the sheople are very poorly informed in (the 'modern' term:) 'people skills,' much less any (critical!) child-rearing theories - let alone practical, clear, step by step "How to's". We simply had to develop all our own (apart from a few good, non-intuitive insights, like controlled crying); attempting to have acceptable theories actually 'in place' before we needed to apply them. Without further ado: Number one: *NEVER* lie to your/any sprog, not even 'little whites.' Number two: *NO* TV, or at least, the very least, and IF - THEN only stuff *guaranteed* to be non-damaging. It means, for example, no violence (most cartoons), lying, screaming or any (copy-able!) bad behaviour (most Hollywood). Number three, *NO* religion, until at least (late) teen. IF religion is encountered (mistake, chance) THEN explain that it's just a cruel & wicked fantasy, and is to be otherwise and henceforth totally ignored... Stop. It is, to us, mostly obvious; and also probably to any who can think (one assumes 'all those like us.')

    -=*=-

    Back 'on-track' (psychohistory), the wiki article says: "Key to deMause's thought is the concept of psychoclass, which emerges out of a particular style of childrearing," and goes on to say that 'Socializing' as a method began being adopted coinciding with The Enlightenment, then 'Helping' essentially since WW2. Even if true, then both the ideas and methods would not arrive everywhere at once fully evolved, but that's a mere detail. Nevertheless, to attribute wars etc to child-rearing methods seems an *impossible* jump - since it is not, as previously pointed out, the masses who are responsible for wars - but rather the opposite, the utterly *irresponsible*, tiny minority often (erroneously!) termed 'the élite.' (There is nothing at all élite about murdering for spoil.) To boot, that 'élite' usually gets v.special schooling.

    I'm pretty sure orana gelar (g'day) understands and agrees; the fact is that one can't get *everything* into each comment, but I think it's important here to run the 'psychohistory' dog to earth - if I'm understanding it myself, having only yesterday encountered it. The other thing I see is attempting to 'excuse' the Zionists, both on the (obvious, laboured, *hyper-hyped*) Holocaust, and the Holocaust pre-history of (similarly over-hyped) anti-Semitism that the Jewish repeatedly claim they suffer under. (Try this (my original URL no longer works.))

    I could agree that (bad!) child-rearing policies might predispose otherwise 'normal' people to fall into psychopathy (i.e. become 'normal' crims), but I can't see any excuse for any state to become psychopathic - as it seem both the US and Israel have, 'big-time' (detested Amer-speak; spit!) All I can see are just these two possibilities: a) birds-of-a-feather (i.e. the so-called 'élite' all just happening to spontaneously tear off in the same direction to do murder for spoil, - or b) they collude. But (as usual, I have lots of you-beaut BIG BUTS:) there's no excusing criminal behaviour by adults, even being brought up by Dracula himself can't excuse conscious criminal behaviour - as any (straight!) judge will probably be only too pleased tell you. Willing to be further enlightened - or re-prioritised.
     

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  76. Consider the extent that the Conservative 'élite' operates within the *Strict Father Model* (as outlined by Lakoff):

    «In the conservative worldview, it is assumed that the world is, and always will be, a dangerous and difficult place. It is a competitive world and there will always be winners and losers. Children are naturally bad since they want to do what feels good, not what is moral, so they have to be made good by being taught discipline. There is tangible evil in the world and to stand up to evil, one must be morally strong, or "disciplined."»

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  77. Now consider the form of Zionism that is Jabotinsky's legacy.

    Jabotinsky joined (and later *revised*) the Zionist movement in direct reaction to the Kishinev pogrom of 1903. He *revised* himself: Born Vladimir he gave himself the name Ze'ev ("wolf"). He became militant. After Herzl's death in 1904 he became the leader of the right-wing Zionists.

    *Revisionist Zionism*, the right wing militant form founded by Jabotinsky, is paranoid about the world seen as a dangerous and difficult place.

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  78. Haiyim Bialik wrote a poem about the first Kishinev pogrom:

    In the City of Slaughter
    ...the heirs
    Of Hasmoneans lay, with trembling knees,
    Concealed and cowering—the sons of the Maccabees!
    The seed of saints, the scions of the lions!
    Who, crammed by scores in all the sanctuaries of their shame,
    So sanctified My name!
    It was the flight of mice they fled,
    The scurrying of roaches was their flight;
    They died like dogs, and they were dead!


    The *bad children* in the eyes of *Ze'ev* were these *mice*, *roaches*, *dogs*, etc. (i.e. *passive* Jews). Hence his new name and militant activism.

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  79. Quick response:

    As a matter of fact, I was waving my copy of "Elephant" around this morning, over breakfast.

    I read what you quoted, and will take it up at length later (sooo little time, and we are going out for a walk shortly.)

    a) In the very 1st instance (refer my rearing-rule #1), we have to distinguish between self-serving lies and any remaining truth. Recall that the so-called 'conservative' view aims primarily at conserving a crooked, vested interest, so-called 'élite' position.

    [At this point, I see your 2nd arrive...]

    b) My impulse here is to ask Q: Is there any truth at all in this viewpoint? - But I'll try to deal with the lot, chopped up.

    «In the conservative worldview, it is assumed that the world is, and always will be, a dangerous and difficult place. It is a competitive world and there will always be winners and losers.»
    Comment: the world can be 'modelled' in microcosm - by the (kindergarten, school) playground. Most of the littlies are (absurdly!) happy and peaceful - most problems arise from little thugs, perhaps best described as 'insufficiently socialised.' (OK, it's *my* personal theory.)

    «Children are naturally bad since they want to do what feels good, not what is moral, so they have to be made good by being taught discipline.»
    Comment: littlies have no "right/wrong" computer until after the "Age of Reason" dawns (5-7yrs). They like to have fun 'naturally,' but are *incredibly* receptive to 'leadership,' as in 'monkey-see.' I observed a small child the other day, playing a 'game' with its mother. Very sly, IMHO borderline-destructive. But (I have a great sack of buts), the mother had 'taught' the game by her own inappropriate actions. Note (IMHO) that 'discipline' as applied to 'firm rule-setting' (for babies) does *not* 'scale' to adult psychopaths.

    «There is tangible evil in the world and to stand up to evil, one must be morally strong, or "disciplined."»
    Comment: since 2003, we (some of us) have been observing the world rather more closely than we did before. I think we now have a good 'handle' on who the real baddies are.

    Comment: also, we have seen that almost nothing is as it looks, because of a constant fug of lies overlaying the underlying reality. In a word, propaganda, also via and actively from the AusBC (& SBS).

    Thesis: this 'Strict Father Model' is a deliberately misleading construct, developed specifically to create a 'frame' within which the plutocracy can extend their rip-offs indefinitely - or so they hope.

    [At this point, ½hr to go, until 'out the door'...]

    Now to Jabotinsky, here recall my recent citing of Churchill, noting 'radicalisation' which you call 'becoming militant.' Also recall the Holocaust, and "two wrongs ..."

    [At this point, I see your 3rd arrive...]

    I think you (or better they, who you are quoting), are mixing metaphors a bit, but nevertheless; there are two 'themes' running here, a) trying to explain (psychohistory) and b) the reality, i.e. what they did/are doing.

    The Palestinians have been radicalised by having had a murdering, thieving genocide launched against them. I see your drift; the Zionists have been similarly radicalised by (perhaps a much longer) anti-Semitism having been directed at them. (But again, see Churchill.) We can understand the point of view of the Palestinians, since by-and-large, we've watched it happen. Also, since we dare not dispute the Holocaust (assuming we wanted to - in general not, but suffering loss of freedom of speech in the process) - we can understand the point of view of the I/J/Z-plex - in wishing for some relief.

    What we do not understand, is why the hapless Palestinians must be made to so horribly suffer - for the (clearly sometimes actual but how much only perceived (inferiority complex) - or by some acts causing widespread reaction - i.e. effectively self-inflicted?) - persecution of Js which, which in any case almost 101% exclusively, did *not* take place any where near Palestine?

    Rewinding a bit, I can't understand the logic of 'Masada,' then back to 'now,' I don't understand the reference to 'bad children' and how that may relate to the Kishinev pogrom.

    A slightly unrelated incident, is Golda Meir's threat to nuke all and sundry «... if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and the whole world down with it?"»
    So. Recall also Bob's post of today; exactly why should the world be held to ransom by an I/J/Z-plex bent on genocidal mass-murder for Palestinian land and water?

    [Sorry it's a bit rushed and on the fly - can't do other at the moment.]

    To finish up, recall that the world stands to burn-up due to excess CO2 climate change. By pushing their (vicious, unprovoked, totally unjustified) attack on Iran, the criminal I/J/Z-plex games distract the world from attempting to save itself from what must be considered a slightly more grave danger - than what Iran poses for poor little land-stealing Israel?

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  80. I trust that was a walk enjoyed.

    I went for a constitutional walk around a lovely park this morning whilst my better-half kept an eye on our young ones in the playground. On the way around I observed an *observer* (aka a PI, aka a *spy*). She was armed with barrel-shaped zoom lens handycam and was capturing on film a man (of *Middle Eastern appearance*), whom to my keen eye was merely playing kick-to-kick with his observably happy kids. Having one of those mobile telephones with camera included, I decided to record the recorder in an obvious "how-does-this-feel-f'er" manner. She fled ... but not far, taking up a new observation post further afield. So my walk resumed in that general direction. She fled again. I was satisfied because I'd spooked the spook, and I really dislike those who'd turn my community into something like a Stasiland.

    Now this story I share has naught to do with our topic. Just felt like sharing a funny thing that happened on the way to ....

    Answering the questions:

    Q. Is there any truth at all in this [Conservative worldview]?

    A. I agree with you. For them it *seems* true, but the real world isn't as (before they make it so) dangerous and difficult as they believe.

    Q. Why should the world be held to ransom by an I/J/Z-plex bent on genocidal mass-murder for Palestinian land and water?

    A. It shouldn't. The question becomes ... why does the world act AS IF it is held to ransom ...?

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  81. Whilst not an answer to "why does the world ...", there is a key explanatory factor for why the United States is pro-Israel, pro-Zionist. Israeli governments, particular right wing Zionist Israeli governments, made themselves available as a surrogate in covertly supporting regimes which were difficult for the US to support directly and openly (e.g. the Duvaliers in Haiti, Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas in Guatemala, Argentine Juntas, Pinochet in Chile, the racist National Party in South Africa, Mobutu Sese Seko in Zaire, etc.)

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  82. Truth, Justice and - abhor the American way.

    Sometimes opinions based on reason, logic and perception; give a clearer picture of the never-ending confusion and the implementation of "Justice" in our world today.

    By travelling and gaining experience on the way we must acknowledge that there are many different laws, customs and religions in various nations.

    Many of these, sometimes harsh laws, have been created to adapt to the climate and perhaps the rigorous nature of the land - with religious "faiths" under the ever-present leadership of the "prophets" - no matter what religion or in what region of the planet.

    For example IMHO: The United States of America must be the most cosmopolitan nation in the world. It has more racial/religious problems than any other "civilised" country. It is the quintessential "do as I say not as I do" hypocritical dictatorship ever in recorded history.

    The citizens of the US have been made paranoid by constant claims of "they hate us for our values" and the hypnotising of their fearful minds by the symbol of their subjugation - the so-called "Star-spangled banner". The latter permeates the very souls of the middle-class down to the some hundred million battling poor.

    Their mainly Hebrew controlled visual and written media maintains the power to elect or destroy any politician who does not meet their requirements - equally because of the misleading information and the undemocratic fact that the wealth of a campaign can elect such incompetents as that moron G.W. Bush.

    Can we ever forget the damage he did to the world and its people – not least of all his own? He was only a confused and dumb pawn of the powers that be – the prophets.

    I am no expert on any religious doctrine but, to the best of my knowledge, the only Semite bible that preaches unlimited “killing” as commanded by Yahweh (the Zionist God) is the Torah?

    No matter how they continue to hide their crimes, the Hebrews cannot deny that they have their beginnings as one of the four Semite Tribes – in their case the Canaanites.

    And thereby entered their service of the cult of Mount Zion.

    We simple people, who are available as gun fodder for world conquest, find it difficult to understand or excuse any one country for doing something against the very obvious and simple laws of humanity, and conversely applying punishment to another in the same circumstances.

    Abhor the American way and that of their partners in crime, the Zionists.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be cross-posted in http://yourdemocracy.net.au/ Gaza Holocaust.

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  83. Rewinding a bit ... IDH,

    Masada became a symbol for a heroic *last stand* for the State of Israel and played a major role in forging national identity.

    The logic of 'Masada' is:

    IF ... we are fighting, THEN ... we fight to the bitter end.

    The reference to *bad children* and how it relates to the Kishinev pogrom is explained thus:

    The self-styled *wolf* Jabotinsky (and others) perceived the Jews of Kishinev (and elsewhere) as *bad children* because they *failed* to fight like *sons of Maccabees*, *seed of saints*, *the scions of the lions*, etc.

    Like those who follow his lead, Jabotinsky would refer to *self-loathing Jews*.

    BTW, as mentioned previously, he founded Betar, named after the lionised Brit Yosef Trumpeldor, whose dying words were reportedly:

    En davar, tov lamut be'ad artzenu.["Never mind, it is good to die for our country."]

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  84. [Walk bordering on the sublime; a 1-hr task turned into a 2-hr stroll, birds, trees, lake & mountains - a really pretty town (in some ways, compares well with your 'Paris of the South.') Then nearly made it through 'fazit' before being called away to linger over a Salade niçoise.]

    I get your drift as to why the world might act as if coerced - and I recall "Little Boy" and subsequent. But IF ... THEN, it'd hardly be practical - against so-called 'allies.' Then the next 'but,' that is *exactly* Perkins' "Hit Man" message; it'd be a combination of 'carrot & stick,' 3rd 'but' is then the indication of such wicked corruption, matched with equal *corruptibility* that is sooo horrendous, sooo wide-spread, and never a whistle-blower (that we've heard about.)

    As "For them it *seems* true," I'm recalling their boast "We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality ..." - in a way it's correct, and the way I'm thinking of is the way I term 'the pushed paradigm;' it is the accumulated evil of the whole lying propaganda *fantasy* (more apropos, *nightmare*) that they have built - from 6Aug'45, say and progressing through the red-scare right down to to the current GWoT Islamofascist-scare. There are key-words and -phrases, based on a fairly simple strategy: 1st scare the sheople shitless, then promise to 'save' them. Now I see that Ern has turned up (g'day), and we can include his reference to religion - in the same phrase as I just wrote: "then promise to 'save' them," here the (risible!) religious promise of 'eternal life'- after death. Skipping straight back to our rearing discussion, you can see why I say *NO* religion (as qualified), about the only way to insinuate that risible 'promise' (of salvation) is to slip it into the defenceless pre-AoR mind of babies. I have previously flagged his process as *serious* 'child abuse.'

    Fazit: That the sheople are manipulated is, IMHO, as obvious as it is indisputable; that they are manipulated based on lies is also, at the very latest after B, B & H; similarly o&i. The manipulation is done via and actively by the MSM, including public broadcasters. Based on my 'reading' of the Curtis videos, the manipulation was initially based on work by Freud, as interpreted by Bernays and the originally stated purpose was to save the sheople from themselves (who allegedly have bad 'drives' embedded in their minds) - it is not known to me at this time if the stated reason then was the 'true' reason they acted upon, or if it was already some sort of camouflage (to obscure their or others' evil.) Then: as I have said, the sheople neither wish for, nor wish to take part in, war - that's the so-called élite's exclusive prerogative. Having found an o&i contradiction ...

    There are two prime-movers, assuming that the (mad!) dog is separable from its (illegitimate!) tail, but what of the supporter/apologists? (Looping.) I've recently been having thoughts upon these themes, reserving a title for a possible post: "Cowered, coerced - and/or outright criminal?"

    PS Your "rewinding" has now appeared. A word has come into vogue; 'warrior.' It may be one thing to fight for some 'honourable' cause - to resist some unambiguous evil, and I can see perhaps why 'Masada' might come in handy to stiffen moral - and was therefore incorporated into their 'narrative.' But (last one for now), just as in the way the 'strict parent' has been manufactured - essentially as a disguise for evil, so parts, if not all of the Zionist narrative. At this point contemplate the time-scale involved, the time available for analysis & planning. In a word: pre-meditated. They had their chance in 47/48 - and went *stark, raving mad* - in the pursuit of what I have only recently heard of, namely "Greater Israel;" and for that objective, still apparently current, they began their 61+ year-long and continuing genocide of the Palestinians. Not, IMHO, a (valid!) excuse. They simply cannot expect to get away with such egregious crimes for too long - but they have certainly, indelibly, blackened their reputations - forever.

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  85. "1st scare the sheople shitless, then promise to 'save' them."

    The most often used word in Reagan's 1980 election victory acceptance speech was "frightened." In his Inaugural Address, he stressed words such as "terror", "doomed" and "sacrifice". His first State of the Nation address consisted almost entirely of apocalyptic language.

    Both Bushs used similar *fear* frames. Both claimed to be some form of *warrior*/*saviour*.

    All 'Strict Father' types.

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  86. By invoking the 'Strict Father' types and Reagan et al., we're moving away from the pathology of the Zionists; quite OK but before we (however temporarily) 'leave' them, I can understand a certain degree of 'cooperation' from Israel in providing support for regimes sooo rogue that the US wanted(needed) a proxy or go-between - but it must be more than just that. Up to '67, it was not the US who was Israel's main support (or so I've read; study by no means complete (other priorities)); then curiously *despite* the USS Liberty incident (Israel knowingly *murdering* many US service-personnel, and that in *ice-cold blood* - "killed 34 and wounded more than 170"), US and Israel became steadily more 'thick as thieves' (haw!) - which they already were and still are now (both thieves and thick). Also, given the quote (via BobW/antiwar/Justin Raimondo): «... by the American Congress, which is, as Pat Buchanan famously — and accurately — observed, "Israeli-occupied territory"» the relationship hardly appears to be 'one hand washes the other' or 'among equals.' Just saying.

    Then, your "Conservative Worldview" citation was 1/3 of a *metaphor* (more study by me needed); it may (accurately) describe/explain the GOP 'stance,' as may the "Progressive Worldview" that of the Democrats. Since I'm trying to get to the root (of all evil), the next question is (multiple); a) how much of these stances is *strictly true* (vs. how much is *confected*), because b) the intentions of both parties, the Repug/Dummo 'pug-ugly-twins' over there, just as the Lib/Labs in Aus, is *not* to represent us, we the sheople, but to further the (evil!) intentions of the US (sub-branch Israel) empire. Also (recall o&i); one of the Bs in the (despised!) B, B & H was from the so-called 'progressive' side.

    To end this, an IF ... THEN: so-called 'bipartisan' anything is *deeply* undemocratic - to say the very least (it simply offers the voters *no* choice - assuming we had any *effective* choice.) What we can (especially here in hindsight) observe (recall again o&i); is that the (corrupt! Venal!) MSM, including the publicly financed broadcasters, have been consciously, thoroughly (and secretly - they hoped) propagandising us - we, the sheople. (One could possibly try to disentangle manipulation from propaganda. IMHO, both have been going on - but birds-of-a-feather.) The publicly financed broadcasters in particular could not possibly do this (manipulation &/ propaganda) - without bipartisan support. Where does that leave us?
     

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  87. To the contrary, IMHO when speaking of Reagan as 'Strict Father' we're still talking of Zionists because ...

    Reagan made himself into a crusading anti-communist as a consequence of a *breakdown* at age 36.

    Later, when he had power, his anti-Communist obsession saw him seeking assistance from the similarly obsessed ... and other useful proxies. In 1982 he gave Begin the nod to unleash Sharon on Lebanon.

    It was an open secret among Washington reporters at the time that the US army had been promised samples of Russian tanks and equipment captured in Lebanon would be sent to America.

    Begin was so grateful for Reagan's support that he called him the "best president for Israel since Richard Nixon."

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  88. America's Pro-Israel Lobby first grabbed hold firmly in the mid-1970s, but it was under Reagan's anti-Communist zealotry spilling into *Christian Zionism* that it achieved a stranglehold.

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  89. It may have escaped your notice Ernest, but Storm front is a white supremicist site. Indeed, it has the slogan "white pride world wide" emlazoned across it.

    Whatever the issues you have with jews, Zionists, Hebrews or what ever you choose to call them do you really need to stoop so low as to link and quote from that cesspit?

    As you have said many times..

    Fair Dinkum

    regards,

    Craig W

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  90. Ern can speak for himself, but I think he's more interested in freedom of speech than any website per se, the freedom of speech that is *violated* when any who criticise the I/J/Z-plex are instantly branded anti-Semites, say. Then a word in your shell-like: you're already starting off on the wrong foot; we don't play "or what ever you choose to call them" in here, see this, say. It also shouldn't need saying - but I will anyway: we do not tolerate lies or similar troll-type offences. Then a comment on your comment: a website is text, and may say whatever it likes - within the jurisdiction of its ISP-domicile. A country which murders Palestinians 61+ years long, to steal their land and water is not quite in the same class as the very worst website - would you not agree?
     

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  91. A welcome debate on an issue that should never die.

    Firstly G’day ID.

    The days I missed (and I have missed them) I spent with a couple of health problems which required the services of Canberra Hospital.

    Secondly G’day Craig W,

    I welcome your post and accept that it was not an opinion but a fact. I was not aware of a site called “Storm Front” but, this morning after reading your comment I googled it and – struth – you were not kidding. However the racial attitude of white against others being brought forward by yourself as a counter, seems to suggest that you do not consider the original Hebrews white? They weren’t you know.

    Returning to my opposition to the Jews, Zionists and Hebrews as you say, I have always welcomed the opportunity to learn – your post has done that for me and until I read it thoroughly, at first blush I am not impressed to say the least.

    Nevertheless, I also believe that “two wrongs don’t make a right” and cannot see the relationship except for the accusation of bias. Additionally, I cannot conceive how the Middle East Murderers’ have been able to ignore at least 101 UN resolutions and then - “corral” the entire population of Gaza like cattle, so that none could escape - then shelled, bombed, shot and burned men, women and children without so much as a “smack on the wrist with a handful of fairy-floss” from their sponsor the terrorist US.

    Fair dinkum indeed.

    I am not trying to make light of this Gaza Holocaust or “Warsaw Ghetto” type murder by the Palestine occupation forces (or whatever you want to call them) far from it. An occurrence which service personnel like I, served to try to prevent.

    This disgusting cowardly massacre of the poorly armed; untrained; and mostly uninvolved men, women and children of a farming community - starved of water and even UN supplies by those occupiers – and the very boring and out of date excuses for that action which, upon research, firmly destroyed the undue respect I previously had for the history of ancient Israel.

    They should hang their heads in shame and return to the original UN boundaries – or get out of Palestine altogether. Indeed, this shall not be forgotten.

    With my limited learning I cannot conceive of any other international deception, of such magnitude, lasting as long as the centuries of “unjustified persecution” of the Jewish people! Especially when one considers that the USSR Commissars, led by Hebrews including Trotsky, killed tens of millions of Christians between 1920 and 1940.

    This and several other factual accounts of the arrogance and brutality by the Zionist/Canaanitic killers (who are as dedicated to the cult of Mount Zion as were the rogue Afro-Asians who worshiped the Goddess Kali) has opened the eyes of many Australians who have become tired of the “the world owes us a living” attitude of even the extremely wealthy Hebrews.

    The invaders should return to the original UN boundaries – or get out of Palestine altogether. Indeed, this shall not be forgotten.

    Craig, I would like to continue our debate if you are willing - especially of your reasoning on the Gaza Holocaust and the majority of Palestine land being occupied by multi-national Jews, by force and starvation. Cheers mate.

    NE OUBLIE.

    This will be slightly changed and posted on http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/ Gaza Holocaust.

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  92. Attention Craig W.

    I may have quoted from "Who Rules America"?

    I looked up my file and that is mentioned but not as White Supremacy.

    Cheers mate.

    NE OUBLIE.

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  93. Hi Ernest and ID,

    I know we are politically "poles apart" - putting it politely, but I happily accept that we are all different. My reason for mentioning the use of a quote from that site is that it seemed so out of the ordinary compared to places you (or any of you) usually quote from or link to. It just alarmed me more than a little and I had a bit of a feeling that you may not have realised the full implications of that site!

    ID, I didnt mean anything in particular by the remark about "jews, zionists or whatever..." and I fully realise what it suggested now - not meant at all to play the race card at you.

    Ernest, I look at this and a few other sites, but I am not mentally switched on to debating anything at the moment. I am horribly busy at work and more importantly my mother has just been diagnosed with an asbestos related form of cancer. I just have different priorities at the moment and I really dont have my heart in political debates.

    Regards to all,

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  94. Thanks for the note & g'day Ern, wishing you a speedy and complete recovery, soonest. I'll be going a bit 'off-line' myself for the next few days, until some time next week.

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